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Old 12-01-2008, 09:25 PM   #1
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Default NB emu problem ?

Hi guys my first post here but not for good reason :P
Sorry for my english...

I have a mx5 1.6 nb with emu+greddy map+boomslang
with Venom injectors 550cc

I have already tune my car with only the 2 basic maps ign+inj.
i have innovate lc1+gauge but i use the narrowband for the emu.

The problem is very strange and not sure if is emu or something else

When i am hard accelerating with full throttle and do a quick change
(keeping the throttle near to full)the car is stucks without to be lean
the wideband this time is about 14,pressure is falling down from 18psi to 5psi and rpm are 3000.
If i let the throttle and press it again it working ok !!!

I check the throttle sensor via Emu software and already do some data logs.
Because i haven.t them now i will post them tomorrow.

I attach and the emu file.

so i hope someone help me to found a solution to this ghost problem.

ps i haven't o2 clamp
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:34 PM   #2
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and the maps
Attached Files
File Type: zip miata.zip (971 Bytes, 23 views)
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:45 PM   #3
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ok i printscreen the logs and its easy to see the problem.
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:54 PM   #4
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still having the problem guys a second log ...

Is possible to have problem with the maf ?
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:24 PM   #5
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I'm having a little trouble following the logs - perhaps the colors don't show up well.

I will say, looking at your car's build, you have WAY too much money in this car to be running that ECU. I would highly recommend you switch to a megasquirt. There is a lot of help for that here. There's even a guy who did a 1.6l NB.

I don't think a MAF will help you, the controller should already be taking care of that. But it looks like it's putting spark timing back in as well as running lean, like it doesn't see the boost. Also, the throttle position looks funny to me, low TPS durring the first bit of high boost, then more throttle after the shift?

Maybe you are running too much boost for the MAP sensor in the computer. Is it a 2 bar sensor? Since it's made for super chargers, it might not know what to do at 18 psi.
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:28 PM   #6
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Repost the logs with less information on them.

TPS
AFR
MAP
Airflow in
Airflow out
IJ adjustment map

In easy to tell distinct colors, like Black, Blue, Red, Bright Green, Purple, White
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:45 PM   #7
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is better this screen shot ? i haven't connect the wideband yet.I will do this tomorrow but when is doing the problem a/f is 14.5.

i am using the greddy 2 bar sensor for the emu.
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:53 PM   #8
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Since I see the same signal on the airfow meter and the MAP sensor, I would say what you are seeing is likely very real. I'm not sure why. The TPS doesn't move (accept that one glitch) so I'm not sure what's going on. Something could be loose, like a boost leak, perhaps check your hose clamps. Otherwise there are some really weird issues but I think you would notice these (massive fueling changes, etc. Perhaps your fuel filter is plugged or your fuel pump isn't up to the job. Do you have a rising rate pressure regulator?).

I would look at those first, fuel delivery and intercooler piping.

An easy way to check is to turn down the boost and see if it behaves. Then add more fuel, and see if it behaves.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:19 PM   #9
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thanks a lot Abefm for your answers.

when i build my new engine i put a walbro 255LPH but I still have the mazda pressure regulator.

The i/c piping it seems to be ok.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:30 PM   #10
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Actually, since the air meter is ahead of the turbo.. You would expect a spike in flow when the pressure went down, but we see the opposite. Is there a chance the throttle plates are loose? It's hard to imagine something blowing INTO the flow but it's possible.

Perhaps your blow off valve is opening early? That would be... lower MAP, higher flow. Nope.

I guess I'll keep thinking about this one.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:59 PM   #11
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did you ever get the o2 clamp? i had a similar problem before. i think you are lean. don't like the KPa units at all lol. what is your email i will send you my file that i use and maybe it will help you i know you have 1.6 but changing it and injector before values should get you started at least. my tables are all in Psi the KPa is like greek to me.
PS
you need a wideband., O2 clamp, and the map you have.
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Old 12-24-2008, 01:37 PM   #12
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1 pound per square inch = 6.89475729 kilopascals


I still think you need more megasquirt.
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post

1 pound per square inch = 6.89475729 kilopascals


I still think you need more megasquirt.
lol i know how much it is but it is just a pain in the *** to look at the numbers if you are not regularly dealing in KPs.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musanovic View Post
did you ever get the o2 clamp? i had a similar problem before. i think you are lean. don't like the KPa units at all lol. what is your email i will send you my file that i use and maybe it will help you i know you have 1.6 but changing it and injector before values should get you started at least. my tables are all in Psi the KPa is like greek to me.
PS
you need a wideband., O2 clamp, and the map you have.
i have an o2 clamp now and is running with the auxiliary output.Is tuned to 0.42 opens at 1500 rpm and close at 4500

today i turn down the boost and i have exactly the same problem.

Something that i was thinking is that maybe i have a bad connection to my hoses and the map sensor is getting wrong signal.

I am confused and my tuner too
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:11 AM   #15
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post some pictures of engine bay especially the vacuum hoses.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platinum View Post
Something that i was thinking is that maybe i have a bad connection to my hoses and the map sensor is getting wrong signal.

I am confused and my tuner too
I don't really buy that - the airflow meter and the MAP sensor agree - there really IS something going on in your flow. It's confusing the heck out of me.

Wait, what's the airflow in signal look like? I know the airflow out matches the map, but I want to know the raw data. You may have posted it, I'll check it after I post this. I had a MAP line which didn't really have a kink, but it was kinda tight, and I got funny behavior. I also noticed that a very small diameter boost line to the MAP caused problems.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:10 AM   #17
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Also, if you embed your images, more people will actually look at them. Try this:



edit: Yeah - you can see it, the MAP and the MAF in and the MAF out all agree. Assuming your MAF is pre-turbo (is this correct?) then you've got something really weird - maybe a wastegate issue? That'd be my first look.

It looks like air flow lags manifold pressure by 50-100 ms, meaning the manifold starts to lose pressure, then the flow stops. If there were a manifold leak, airflow would go up while pressure went down. If there were a intercooler leak, it would be the same but more pronounced. The TPS dipping down had no effect on MAP or airflow, so I think it's a bad read, but I saw the same thing in the previous log.

I wonder if there is software averaging going on, causing a delay on the map line.

Also, MAP comes back up *before* you fully step on the gas? That's weird. It's making me want to check my own logs. I don't have a MAF hooked up but at least I could check the MAP vs TPS relationship.



Ok, thinking about it: If first the manifold pressure drops, and THEN the flow drops, this is consistant with either a blockage in the path (think loose throttle plate!) or some weird wastegate leak.
Throttle: The throttle closes slightly. Manifold pressure drops as engine can't suck air from intercooler. Later, turbo slows due to pressure, and the flow through the air flow meter drops as the IC piping becomes pressurized.
Wastegate: Wastegate opens, turbo draws less air, later manifold pressure drops. This is not what we see.
Wastegate II: Wastegate partially open at regulated pressure, then suddenly slams shut (bad boost controller, leak in diaphram or sticky ball). This makes turbo increase backpressure, hurts 'scavenging', flow into motor drops. Soon after, turbo draws more air....

The wastegate linkage deserves looking at, but right now I'm still thinking something's up with the throttle. Kinda a longshot. Perhaps the idle valve is messed up.

Last edited by AbeFM; 12-25-2008 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:45 AM   #18
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Hi,

well I am the other one 1,6NB with turbo and your problem is one of the things why I switched to the megasquirt.

I I did accelerate in 3rd gear to the red line and then shift to fourth gear teh car would fall flat on it's face - running at 9.6 AFR... One lift of the throttle and everything went fine again (though this behaviour would always corrupt the Maps).

I don't have a clue what this is - but a solution - which is Megasquirt.

(Thanks again at Abe and others, which helped me get MS running)

Greets
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Old 12-25-2008, 12:43 PM   #19
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are you using ms1 with cas or ms2 ?

The reason that i preferred emu whas the price,becouse no one tuner in greece using ms
only haltech,dta,hks,aem etc and the installation+tuning is very expensive.

If i can install it and tune it alone i will try,but if the problem ish't from the emu and something else going wrong ?
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Old 12-25-2008, 01:08 PM   #20
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If zaphy saw the same issue, then I would really suspect the EMU. You could check the mechanicals, but you might spend a bunch of time on it. certainly if the maps are getting messed up, software is where you want to look.

zaph, what did you spend on the MS install? BTW, my MS-II board is almost done. Two or three more traces to run, then testing.
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