Q's about the EMU, maps inlcuded. Let me know what you think.
 

OK, so it is running. Here are some basic parameters.

Stock I/J lag-.66
430cc low impedence injectors with resistors in line- 2.52

good idle descent cruise-

WB02 gauge reads 10.0 at idle.

Older guy O2 clamp- .34v, verified with a DMM

ignition is set at 6* static the EMU adds 8 at -14, 6 at 0, -2 at 8.7psi @4000 rpms and so on.

What I am concerned about and maybe need peace of mind on is the EMU showing real time ignition- during driving or acceleration the log shows 39 or higher or it goes down the 20 or so, then settles at 14.8 or 15. Is everything ok with that?I have verified the timing with a timing light at 6*. I haven't gotten beyond 2psi cause I am nervous/unsure of the timing, and I do not want to blow the motor up.

too rich at idle. man it must smell pretty bad. i am running 12 afr on 11 psi. 10 is too much your sparkplugs are probably done by now.
maps can be posted on http://www.mediafire.com/
for free.:)

read on some posts about timing people usually pull 1 degree per 1psi.

thanks for the hook up.

http://www.mediafire.com/?tmf1iydz6ti

These are some maps that I am thinking of trying tmro. Please let me know what you guys think.

Yes, it smells bad, my clothes smell bad, my wife says I smell bad too. I thought 10 was too rich. How do I change the AF at idle? You can see that I dont have the EMU controlling the AF below 0 in the AF table. I thought that I would let the stock ECU handle the AF until I hit 0.

Also, after I read, re-read Brain's FAQ, I pulled the 190LPH HP fuel pump from the tank and put the stocker back in. I don't want that unit add to the rich idle issue, or put in another variable at that.

Fiddled around with it today, the WBO2 shows 10.0-10.9 at idle. Car is running really rich. Would a bad stock O2 make the engine run overly rich?

I cant post datalogs because the EMU software does not like Win Vista and will not transfer it over.

maybe a sensor can cause that. not sure it can. a file wold be best to see. i am running software on vista without a problem. is your MAF connected right. how is the AFR while you drive?

what software version are you running? I get a language error when the data logs are being xferred. I am on v2.13, let me update hen try and download the logs from the unit.

actually i am using 2.13. try uninstalling it and reinstalling it.

Stock ecu wouldn't be able to idle injectors that big by itself at normal afr's. You need to help it out with the emu a little big, try using some negative numbers below 0psi, all my cells below that have negative numbers because even though it's in closed/open loop at that rpm you can still help the ecu out.

Ok, so I will make negative number adjustments to the I/J adjustment map above 0psi? Is that correct? You know, I wondered about that last night, but I searched around here and couldnt find definative on that. Plenty of info for the MS, but not for the EMU. Thanks for the tip. I will give it a shot this evening.

You should not have to. Ideally, your I/J map will be all zeros above 0 PSI, with positive correction at and below that point. This is specifically what the "I/J Size" and "I/J Lag" corrections are for in the main setup.

Ideally, you will want to tinker with these until you get a nice, stoichiometric mixture at idle. It'll be wavering back and forth, but you want it centered around 14.7:1 or so at idle. The lag time variable in particular is going to be a crap-shoot for you, since you've taken lo-z injectors and put resistors on them. They're really not intended to work that way, so any lag time data they may have come with is going to be totally moot. They may, in reality, be slower than equivalently sized hi-z injectors without having a peak-and-hold driver to give them that initial slug of opening current.

How old is your narrowband O2 sensor?

i agree with joe on the injectors and for simplification/error elimination i would rather buy plug and play injectors and run those. you can find RX7 460's for about 100$. well worth in my opinion. i would rather not input any values above 0psi on the tables, could just complicate matter further.

Its the facotyr orginal O2. I had it out of the car sitting for two weeks...sprayed brake cleaner around it and so on. It could be toast.

The lag times for these are supposed to be .54ms, but I get the best performance with a .67/2.78 combo...Car still stumbles at full acceleration. Drop back down to idle and it sits right on 10.0. I reinstalled the software, and I will try and get some data logs this evening. Thanks for all the help guys. I may ditch these low Z injectors and get some high Z's. That wil leliminate some headache and future headache.

The O2 sensor is the one that came on the car? It is definitely due for retirement. Go to your local auto parts store and ask for a universal bosch 4 wire O2 sensor. You'll have to splice the connector from your old one onto it, but it'll save you a bundle of money. (pretty much all four-wire O2 sensors are identical except for the connector and wire colors)

I've never used lo-z injectors, although several folks around here have. Your lag times sound really bizarre to me however, even with the resistors. If you can find a set of 440cc hi-z injectors cheaply, it'd be a good way to eliminate a variable. I'm sure the ones you have can be made to work, I'm just afraid I can't say how.

Definitely wait on this until after the new narrowband sensor is in however.

Joe,

Question for you. Just for clarification...I have been working with the lag times only, keeping the original as stock 1.8s and putting in 440's in the after field, but should I be experimenting with the injector size as well? The EMU does add a correction based on the difference, right? Like 60% in this case. Curious if I experimented with the size of the injectors if it would make a difference at all.

Well, yeah. Ideally, in the left box you'd put "230" and in the right box you'd put "440", and the EMU does the correction.

The difference between this and the lag times field is that the size fields are a proportional correction, and the lag fields are a static correction.

In other words, say you went from 200cc to 400cc injectors, and from 1ms to 2ms lag. The ratio between 200cc and 400cc is 0.5 (200cc is 50% of 400cc).

Say the stock ECU calls for a 9ms pulse. First, the EMU subtracts 1ms (because that's the "stock" lag time) and determines that the ECU wants 8ms of actual fuel flow. Then, it multiplies 8ms my 0.5 to correct for size, and determines that it needs to deliver 4ms of actual fuel. Then it looks and sees that the new injectors have a 2ms lag, so it adds 2ms, and it winds up outputting a 6ms pulse to the injector.

At least, that's what I think it does. There's no actual documentation on that part of it, and I never bothered to simulate any of it on the bench- it just worked.

In other words, it's a fiddly thing. However, you should be able to get the correct results by putting the actual, true before and after sizes in and then playing with lag.

Joe,

Thanks for that. Confirmed my initial thought which was to leave the 265/440 as they were. I didnt mess with that at all. Just the lags.

Now a quick update: I replaced the factory O2, but the injectors are the issue here, as you and musanovic thought. I can get the lag times to 1.20/2.25 on the 440's and the AF reading at idle is around 13.7. A huge difference, but the car is not driveable at all. A blip of the go pedal and it stalls. So, I am going to pull those injectors out, remove the resistors and put my stock 1.8 injectors back in. I will limit the boost to about 5-6psi, but it will allow me to tune the EMU properly....I hope. I will seek out some PNP saturated injectors from a RX7. Those are my plans for this evening.

I was able to data log last night. I reached 2.9 psi before I let off the gas, the AF was 18.8:eek4:

Thanks for the help thus far guys. I will update tomorrow.

Just a heads up I’m having issues with the 550cc Saturated (High Impedance) RX-7 Injectors Denso Part number 195500-2020.

you might want to look for some of the 440cc or 460cc injectors..

89-92 Mazda RX-7 NA 440cc - Blue Top #195500-5740
89-91 RX-7 NA 460cc - Red Top #195500-2010

If we can't get my 550cc working this week I’m going back to stock injectors too.

I'm running these on a 99 so you might not have the same issue but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

What issues are you having. You are setting your system up for E85, right?

One day it will be E85 right now I’m trying to get warm idle\start with 93 Octane Dead Dinosaur, not working.. We have fudged with the Lag time with no noticeable improvement.

I’m also getting a knock sensor CEL P0325

Are you messing with both lag times? Not meaning to be redundant or that I know all. I started with .54 for the stock units, but found they idle best around .68, which I think the EMU it drops to .67 automatically.

I haven't gotten any CEL's at all, but I dont have a knock sensor either.

Right now i'm running the Lag times 0.64 (before) and 0.74 (after).

I haven't played with it for a while i'm hoping to have some time tonight.

The Stock injectors are very different in the 99 compared to the 96.. I wondering if the lag time is much lower sense it's a new design.

As fate would have it I just scored a set of RX7 injectors 460cc-19550-20010, high Z.

From hell's heart I stab at thee, damn low Z injectors.

doesn't the EMU have preset injector settings for the RX7 engine?

Maybe you can get the settings for the RX7 injectors from that?

Damn work .. I wanna play with my car NOW!!

for the before lag time i have 0 after lag time i am using .90on 460's that should at least get it idling nicely.

what some experienced here, the Inj correction factor
is not working well with "big" injectors like 460s/550s.
Simply typing the sizes in before/after is not functional.
You need to reduce the "after" for min. 10%.

The problem is, for example 230/550 corection factor the EMU
reduces inj duty cycle to much, the inj adj. map would need
more then 100% to get desired AFRs.

If you try a 500 or 480 with real 550s, things get better in boost area,
AFRs are reached. One here is still playing with this,
I am sure he will post his results over the weekend.

In nonboost area, AFRs will be wrong with this smaler
correction factor. You need to map the inj adj map
in the nonboost area to get correct results.
Furthermore, the water temp and probably idle adj
map should be used with these "big" injectors to
allow cold/warm start and idle.

regarding the "lag time", its the time the injectors
need to open/close. It is on top of the duty cycle.
No fuel is passing during that.
Bigger injectors have mostly bigger lag times,
This bigger lag time without changing
gets part of the duty cycle, reducing real open time.

On idle, using the big correction factor, the inj. duty cycle
is very small, but there is a minimum opening time needed.

Adding bigger lag time, the duty cycle will stay same,
but total opening time rises. If I am correct with this,
you can add fuel aka inj duty cycle in the maps and the
result will be the same as rising lag time.
Sure, changing lag time to fit injectors is the best way.
But I dont think it has to be 0.01 adjustments.

and, in real english this might be understandable :-)


Falk

Thanks for the information..

:bigtu:

My car won't stay running at .90, I have to keep the lags at 1.2 to start and have a rough idle. It idles really good at 1.6 or so, but it isnt driveable at that. I have to set the lags at 1.92 to drive the car then adjust the IJ duty cycle.

damn way different than mine but whatever works

Ok- so here is the current update. I removed the low Z injectors and the resistors. Put in the RX7 high Z PNP 460cc injectors, 19550-2020. The lag can be set as low as 1.2, but idles great at 1.60. Not driveable though. I have to set it at 1.92 in order to drive the car, then I fiddle with the lag times from there otherwise it runs pig rich at idle, like 10.9 AFR. Stinky...It is currently idling around 13.4 or so. One question I have. When you set the engine type, in my case BP-ZE(NA) it sets the injectors at 220cc, not 254cc which is what I had, stock. Sounds stupid, but...Which injector size do I actually go with? I just want to make for double sure.

I changed the O2 clamp from .32v to .38v, and the pressure switch is still at the .5 setting.

I cannot build boost beyond 2.9-4psi. I checked all the vacuum lines, the HKS SSQV, the couplers, and I removed the MBC. I hooked up the WG directly to the compressor housing. I have the 9psi spring in the wastegate. I am assuming the lack of boost is due to the tune, too rich or too lean. Please let me know if there is something else I need to check.

Please take a look and tell me what you think. As always I appreciate the help guys.

Here are the current maps and the Log from this evening.

Map-http://www.mediafire.com/?j0ftd9w2blj

Log-http://www.mediafire.com/?ro2id3t4ecz

That Map Link is the same as the log file..

you must have the 550's with that part number you provided. 460cc have different part numbers.

stop trying to build boost !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you are lean as fuck according to your log
u'll blow shit up

2010's-sorry its late.

Well, I know that. I am not a total idiot. The question was two fold. Why do you think that the logs only go to 5400 rpms or so. That is when I am seeing the boost vs the AFR's, then I am off the gas.

Suggestions?

bc you lean out so much i would guess.

Would you mind sharing your maps? I found a thread from 2007 where you posted a couple of links, but they are dead links.

Any ideas on how to get the emu pointed in the right direction? If not, I might start over from scratch. Which at this point doesnt seem it would hurt anything.:)

post your file and ill look at it for you. i will edit and tell you what you may want to change.

Awesome. I appreciate it.

I/J Scale
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...la/IJscale.jpg

Ignition Map
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...a/ignition.jpg

AF Target Map
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...a/AFTarget.jpg

first off are you ever going to be running 28psi or 18psi?
You need to make maps that are more realistic for your car and setup.my fuel maps are empty above 0psi. i let the stock ecu handle the mixture if not in boost.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jyyj1lwyd9i
my file is here

i don't recommend you just uploading the maps to your car since i am tuning it a bit differently. use at your own risk. also i am running bit rich right now. also am using water methanol.

Thanks for the guidelines. I will rescale, adjust the IJ tables and see what happens. Q for you. Auxillary Output Map...what are you using that for? The manual says for O2 Sensor adapter. What am I looking at when I view that map? Closed and Open loop? Sorry, the manual isnt exactly the best.

Do I need it, cause I don't have it?

Looking over you parameters I see some differences, beyond the fact that you are using BP-ZE(NB) vs NA. All this is very helpful and gives me some new values to try tomorrow.

I appreciate all the help you have given me thus far.

aux output is the o2 clamp that i am running. it is activated by the emu instead of some others which have a pressure sensor to activate. the on and off things are just to specify in which fields the clamp turns on to prevent the stock ecu from leaning out. it reads normal voltage and does not conflict the extra fuel added.

So, you would use that for something like the O2 clamp that Joe Perez built, right? One that integrates with the EMU? Very cool. Thanks for the explanation. I will fiddle with the car some more tonight.

The wife is getting pissed that I have been in my man cave(garage) too long and wants the car running. She wants me to take it to a shop and let them do it. For personal reasons I want to get it done on my own. I refuse to be pwned by a machine....

She gave me until this weekend.....

lol if it is either the women or the car you need to get yourself a new wife. :giggle: and yes it is the o2clamp that joe made.