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Old 04-13-2008, 03:04 PM   #1
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Default Q's about the EMU, maps inlcuded. Let me know what you think.

OK, so it is running. Here are some basic parameters.

Stock I/J lag-.66
430cc low impedence injectors with resistors in line- 2.52

good idle descent cruise-

WB02 gauge reads 10.0 at idle.

Older guy O2 clamp- .34v, verified with a DMM

ignition is set at 6* static the EMU adds 8 at -14, 6 at 0, -2 at 8.7psi @4000 rpms and so on.

What I am concerned about and maybe need peace of mind on is the EMU showing real time ignition- during driving or acceleration the log shows 39 or higher or it goes down the 20 or so, then settles at 14.8 or 15. Is everything ok with that?I have verified the timing with a timing light at 6*. I haven't gotten beyond 2psi cause I am nervous/unsure of the timing, and I do not want to blow the motor up.

Last edited by 96rdstr; 04-14-2008 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 04-13-2008, 11:24 PM   #2
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too rich at idle. man it must smell pretty bad. i am running 12 afr on 11 psi. 10 is too much your sparkplugs are probably done by now.
maps can be posted on http://www.mediafire.com/
for free.

read on some posts about timing people usually pull 1 degree per 1psi.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:05 AM   #3
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thanks for the hook up.

http://www.mediafire.com/?tmf1iydz6ti

These are some maps that I am thinking of trying tmro. Please let me know what you guys think.

Yes, it smells bad, my clothes smell bad, my wife says I smell bad too. I thought 10 was too rich. How do I change the AF at idle? You can see that I dont have the EMU controlling the AF below 0 in the AF table. I thought that I would let the stock ECU handle the AF until I hit 0.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:08 AM   #4
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Also, after I read, re-read Brain's FAQ, I pulled the 190LPH HP fuel pump from the tank and put the stocker back in. I don't want that unit add to the rich idle issue, or put in another variable at that.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:19 PM   #5
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Fiddled around with it today, the WBO2 shows 10.0-10.9 at idle. Car is running really rich. Would a bad stock O2 make the engine run overly rich?

I cant post datalogs because the EMU software does not like Win Vista and will not transfer it over.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:53 PM   #6
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maybe a sensor can cause that. not sure it can. a file wold be best to see. i am running software on vista without a problem. is your MAF connected right. how is the AFR while you drive?
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musanovic View Post
maybe a sensor can cause that. not sure it can. a file wold be best to see. i am running software on vista without a problem. is your MAF connected right. how is the AFR while you drive?

what software version are you running? I get a language error when the data logs are being xferred. I am on v2.13, let me update hen try and download the logs from the unit.
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:30 AM   #8
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actually i am using 2.13. try uninstalling it and reinstalling it.
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:40 AM   #9
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Stock ecu wouldn't be able to idle injectors that big by itself at normal afr's. You need to help it out with the emu a little big, try using some negative numbers below 0psi, all my cells below that have negative numbers because even though it's in closed/open loop at that rpm you can still help the ecu out.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:12 AM   #10
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Stock ecu wouldn't be able to idle injectors that big by itself at normal afr's. You need to help it out with the emu a little big, try using some negative numbers below 0psi, all my cells below that have negative numbers because even though it's in closed/open loop at that rpm you can still help the ecu out.

Ok, so I will make negative number adjustments to the I/J adjustment map above 0psi? Is that correct? You know, I wondered about that last night, but I searched around here and couldnt find definative on that. Plenty of info for the MS, but not for the EMU. Thanks for the tip. I will give it a shot this evening.
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96rdstr View Post
Ok, so I will make negative number adjustments to the I/J adjustment map above 0psi? Is that correct?
You should not have to. Ideally, your I/J map will be all zeros above 0 PSI, with positive correction at and below that point. This is specifically what the "I/J Size" and "I/J Lag" corrections are for in the main setup.

Ideally, you will want to tinker with these until you get a nice, stoichiometric mixture at idle. It'll be wavering back and forth, but you want it centered around 14.7:1 or so at idle. The lag time variable in particular is going to be a crap-shoot for you, since you've taken lo-z injectors and put resistors on them. They're really not intended to work that way, so any lag time data they may have come with is going to be totally moot. They may, in reality, be slower than equivalently sized hi-z injectors without having a peak-and-hold driver to give them that initial slug of opening current.

How old is your narrowband O2 sensor?
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:12 PM   #12
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i agree with joe on the injectors and for simplification/error elimination i would rather buy plug and play injectors and run those. you can find RX7 460's for about 100$. well worth in my opinion. i would rather not input any values above 0psi on the tables, could just complicate matter further.
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:53 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
You should not have to. Ideally, your I/J map will be all zeros above 0 PSI, with positive correction at and below that point. This is specifically what the "I/J Size" and "I/J Lag" corrections are for in the main setup.

Ideally, you will want to tinker with these until you get a nice, stoichiometric mixture at idle. It'll be wavering back and forth, but you want it centered around 14.7:1 or so at idle. The lag time variable in particular is going to be a crap-shoot for you, since you've taken lo-z injectors and put resistors on them. They're really not intended to work that way, so any lag time data they may have come with is going to be totally moot. They may, in reality, be slower than equivalently sized hi-z injectors without having a peak-and-hold driver to give them that initial slug of opening current.

How old is your narrowband O2 sensor?
Its the facotyr orginal O2. I had it out of the car sitting for two weeks...sprayed brake cleaner around it and so on. It could be toast.

The lag times for these are supposed to be .54ms, but I get the best performance with a .67/2.78 combo...Car still stumbles at full acceleration. Drop back down to idle and it sits right on 10.0. I reinstalled the software, and I will try and get some data logs this evening. Thanks for all the help guys. I may ditch these low Z injectors and get some high Z's. That wil leliminate some headache and future headache.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:15 PM   #14
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The O2 sensor is the one that came on the car? It is definitely due for retirement. Go to your local auto parts store and ask for a universal bosch 4 wire O2 sensor. You'll have to splice the connector from your old one onto it, but it'll save you a bundle of money. (pretty much all four-wire O2 sensors are identical except for the connector and wire colors)

I've never used lo-z injectors, although several folks around here have. Your lag times sound really bizarre to me however, even with the resistors. If you can find a set of 440cc hi-z injectors cheaply, it'd be a good way to eliminate a variable. I'm sure the ones you have can be made to work, I'm just afraid I can't say how.

Definitely wait on this until after the new narrowband sensor is in however.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:32 PM   #15
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Joe,

Question for you. Just for clarification...I have been working with the lag times only, keeping the original as stock 1.8s and putting in 440's in the after field, but should I be experimenting with the injector size as well? The EMU does add a correction based on the difference, right? Like 60% in this case. Curious if I experimented with the size of the injectors if it would make a difference at all.
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:14 PM   #16
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Well, yeah. Ideally, in the left box you'd put "230" and in the right box you'd put "440", and the EMU does the correction.

The difference between this and the lag times field is that the size fields are a proportional correction, and the lag fields are a static correction.

In other words, say you went from 200cc to 400cc injectors, and from 1ms to 2ms lag. The ratio between 200cc and 400cc is 0.5 (200cc is 50% of 400cc).

Say the stock ECU calls for a 9ms pulse. First, the EMU subtracts 1ms (because that's the "stock" lag time) and determines that the ECU wants 8ms of actual fuel flow. Then, it multiplies 8ms my 0.5 to correct for size, and determines that it needs to deliver 4ms of actual fuel. Then it looks and sees that the new injectors have a 2ms lag, so it adds 2ms, and it winds up outputting a 6ms pulse to the injector.

At least, that's what I think it does. There's no actual documentation on that part of it, and I never bothered to simulate any of it on the bench- it just worked.

In other words, it's a fiddly thing. However, you should be able to get the correct results by putting the actual, true before and after sizes in and then playing with lag.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:57 AM   #17
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Joe,

Thanks for that. Confirmed my initial thought which was to leave the 265/440 as they were. I didnt mess with that at all. Just the lags.

Now a quick update: I replaced the factory O2, but the injectors are the issue here, as you and musanovic thought. I can get the lag times to 1.20/2.25 on the 440's and the AF reading at idle is around 13.7. A huge difference, but the car is not driveable at all. A blip of the go pedal and it stalls. So, I am going to pull those injectors out, remove the resistors and put my stock 1.8 injectors back in. I will limit the boost to about 5-6psi, but it will allow me to tune the EMU properly....I hope. I will seek out some PNP saturated injectors from a RX7. Those are my plans for this evening.

I was able to data log last night. I reached 2.9 psi before I let off the gas, the AF was 18.8

Thanks for the help thus far guys. I will update tomorrow.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:05 AM   #18
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Just a heads up I知 having issues with the 550cc Saturated (High Impedance) RX-7 Injectors Denso Part number 195500-2020.

you might want to look for some of the 440cc or 460cc injectors..

89-92 Mazda RX-7 NA 440cc - Blue Top #195500-5740
89-91 RX-7 NA 460cc - Red Top #195500-2010

If we can't get my 550cc working this week I知 going back to stock injectors too.

I'm running these on a 99 so you might not have the same issue but I thought it might be worth mentioning.
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:07 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by MX5-4me View Post
Just a heads up I知 having issues with the 550cc Saturated (High Impedance) RX-7 Injectors Denso Part number 195500-2020.

you might want to look for some of the 440cc or 460cc injectors..

89-92 Mazda RX-7 NA 440cc - Blue Top #195500-5740
89-91 RX-7 NA 460cc - Red Top #195500-2010

If we can't get my 550cc working this week I知 going back to stock injectors too.

I'm running these on a 99 so you might not have the same issue but I thought it might be worth mentioning.
What issues are you having. You are setting your system up for E85, right?
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:16 AM   #20
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What issues are you having. You are setting your system up for E85, right?
One day it will be E85 right now I知 trying to get warm idle\start with 93 Octane Dead Dinosaur, not working.. We have fudged with the Lag time with no noticeable improvement.

I知 also getting a knock sensor CEL P0325
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