Suggestion on EMU adjustments
 

Yesterday I installed my AEM wideband and 460 CC injsctors in my MSM. After looking at the data logger looks like all parts are working. It idles great and runs great below 4000-4500 rpm. After that, it will cut out bad and/or feel like it's loading up on fuel. Before the injectors it ran great at all RPMs. Where should I start with the trouble shooting? I'm guessing somewhere in the mix, the injectors are not doing something right. I used .06 for lag time in the right column, what about the left side, should there be a value there? Any thoughts?

Sounds like you're doing fine in closed-loop, but running too rich in open-loop.

The two lag time boxes are basically looking for a differential between your old and new injectors. I had good luck running 0.65 in the left and 0.8 in the right. These numbers were pure guesswork, but they seemed to do the job. Try that and see if it improves anything.

Please post a copy of your .em2 file and a log (.lg2) file of when it's not running like you think it should. With that we might have enough information to make relevant suggestions.

Do you have your air fuel target map enabled? What is the air fuel ratio above 4500 rpm? Lots of questions the map and log could answer.

I did a data log just before I called it a day, I'll see if I can figure out how to post it.

Set up log is my current configuration and the other is my data log
never mind, had an error trying to upload file. I'll try again

Invalid file extention. Guess I need to figure out how to load the file first

winzip is your friend.

Goy em zipped and loaded. Hopeully I this will help. On the data log file, basically select area I thought might help and did a few runs around the block.

What version of the EMU software are you running? I am on 2.13 but your log doesn't appear to be that version, so the values aren't very helpful.

Does your EMU recognine your tps? None of your injector maps have any fuel correction under boost. I would suggest that if your TPS is registering you set the values on the A/F Target tab to use the I/J Adjustment Map 1 instead of Airflow Adjustment Map. Lower the water temp to 75 degrees, and the throttle position to around 40, the start tome to 10 and change the feedback amount to 5%.

Drive it around very carefully like that, prefferably with the PC hooked up. You should start to see some changes in the i/j adjustment map. That is a good thing. The changes will show on the pc. You need to save the map on the PC, then re export to main unit in order for them to become persistent. If you drive around without the pc it will still make the corrections, but you have to hook up the pc and save the changes then re export for the EMU to keep them.

Let me know if that helps things. The key is a) the I/j adjustments are showing up , b) that you save it on the pc and export it back to the EMU and c) that you take it easy as the adjustments work themselves out.

I'll give this a try. I am using the version 2.16, the newest one.

Made the changes and did another log. it seem to be a little better but not a lot. Lower RPM and part throttle still great, more throttle and more RPM sucks. How long do you need to drive autotuning before the maps should start to smooth out?

I have an FM 02 signal modifier on the car. The MSM has this issue where the boost come on strong at around 4500-500o RPM. It an open loop close loop issue. On the MSM, the FM O2 mod tricks the ECU into open loop (i think) earlier and gets rid of the surge. When you mention that it look OK in closed loop, It makes me wonder I should get rid of the FM O2 clamp?

Absolutely not! It means that I think you've got the injector trim wrong, and the ECU is hiding this fact by compensating it in closed-loop.

From what you see in the files, nothing that can't be corrected with some tweeking correct?

I'm thiking part of my problem was that I have not given the autotune feature enough time to work. Most of what I had done up to know was short 5 mile trips. I drove to work today with it autotunning and by the time I got there it had smoothed out considerably. It hitting 5500 rpm before it starts to act up, where as yesterday it as closer too 3500-5000, and, it was crappy during anything other than part throttle. I do have one more question, for now anyway. On my maps, i.e injector and AF maps, should I select the greddy pressure sensor or the hotwire V? Which one is better? does it matter that much?

It should start smoothing things out pretty quickly at the settings I suggested. I didn't see those changes in the map you attached. I made the suggested changes to the attached map. I didn't change anything else. But, I am on version 2.13 and in the middle of too many things to upgrade so use at your own risk.

--Chris

Thanks, yeah, I looked at that after I saved it, or so I thought, I must of not saved it properly. I'll try the one you sent me. I really apretiate the help

Do you have any values in the i/j adjustment maps when you look at them. Nothing shows up in mine. It might be that my older 2.13 is just not reading your 2.16 maps correctly.

I am in the middle of tuning my new setup and don't want to introduce any new variables so I can't upgrade right now to look at your logs etc.

After driving to work today I do. There was not in the map I posted yesterday. I'm guessing either it was saved inproperly or the autotun had not been running long enough to really fill them in.

Great. I take it you are driving to work with the PC connected to the EMU.

If so, I suggest this routine.
When you get to work, before you turn the car off, save the map, then export to main unit. Now you can turn the car off, and the map on your PC and the one in the EMU are the same.

I would drive it with those settings, using that routine for a few trips, then gradually turn down the feedback amount. You should notice things running much better after just a couple of cycles. When you get the feedback down to .5% and things are running the way you want, you can quit having the pc connected and doing the save/export thing. At that point you can either leave the A/F target map enabled or not. I don't think it really hurts anything to leave it on, but without connecting the pc, you won't be saving any of the adjustments it may be making on your behalf.

Does the car seem to be doing better now that some of the injector correction cells are populated?

This is exactly what I did today. By the time I got to work I notice the injector map had a lot of corrections in it. Also, by the time I got there, I could apply more throttle with less issues. Still no full throttle, but I could get a lot high in the RPM band before it started loading up. Feed back??? which menu setting is that under. Hate to sound like an idiot, but when it comes to the EMU I am....quick learner though.

Once I get it about right, I'll take it to a dyno and see can I turn for a little more power. Another questions. On the menu where you can select hotwire V, greddy pressure sensor or absolute pressure etc, which is the best to use? does it really matter that much?

From the top...

Try setting up the lag times correctly, as shown below. OK, so my .65 and .8 are just guesses, but they're much closer guesses than what I'm seeing in there presently. BTW, what kind of injectors were you running previously that were 280cc/min?
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/596/injcompxy9.gif



Don't use Airflow anywhere. Use MAP. That's why you bought the thing.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7083/ijadjustkl4.gif


Speaking of which, if you're using a proper Greddy 4-bar, you should probably switch to PSI (or kpa) rather than Volts. Makes like easier.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8...tivepsipl0.gif



But even if you're not using a Greddy 4-bar, I can't find any MAP sensor that's not in vacuum at the rows where you're trying to do AFR autotune. (what the hell kind of MAP sensor do you have, anyway?) Only do autotune when you're in boost and when your O2 sensor clamp is active. Otherwise the EMU ends up fighting with the ECU.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9...rtargetwh1.gif



And leave the airflow adjust map alone. Do your corrections in the I/J adjust map.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6...wadjustau3.gif

What Joe said/\

and the feedback is set in the a/f target tab of the parameters screen.

My map sensor is the $65 dollar one on ebay that I "thought" was the greddy sensor until I got it. the 280, should be 265cc, which is the stock MSM injectors, since they supposely flow around 280 I used that number. I'm having second thought on the sensor I bought, actually would not have bought it if I had realized it was not the greddy one. On the package it say 3 bar map sensor. You want to give me a good deal on the one you have?
I can't see the photos you posted on my work computer so I'll have to check them out when I get home tonight.

Before you abandon all hope, let's try to figure out the characteristics of the sensor you have. A hand-operated vacuum pump would be best here, but we can use the engine if need be. Fire up Ye' Olde logger and tell me what you see.

With the engine not running at all, you should see 1.5vDC / 100 kpa (absolute) / 0 PSI (relative). (I'm assuming you don't live in Denver)

With the engine at regular warm idle, you should see appx 0.8vDC / 30 kps (absolute) / -10 PSI (relative).

Mind providing a link to the eBay auction and maybe a picture of the package and documentation on the sensor?

I'll have to wait until tonight when I get home. I can't get to ebay from work.

1. With the engine not running at all, you should see 1.5vDC / 100 kpa (absolute) / 0 PSI (relative). (I'm assuming you don't live in Denver)

-9.5 is what it registered the above. I did not see a value for volts. looked around few menus put didn't see anything to switch it to read volts.


With the engine at regular warm idle, you should see appx 0.8vDC / 30 kps (absolute) / -10 PSI (relative).

KPA at idle was -69

This doesn't sound like the info you were looking for. Tonight when I get homw I'll poke around some more. Also, I will be able to see the pictures you posted then. I think I may go ahead and order the greddy pressure sensor. The seller of this product does not know anything about it and no documentation comes with it. If I recall, the package said 3 bar map sensor 5v or something to that affect. At least if I get the greedy piece I'll know what I have and can eliminate any guess work.

Another question regarding the map sensor. The MSM has a MAP sensor, I think it's a 3 bar but I'm not sure. Since the boomslang harness I used is for both the turbo and non tubo version, I used the assumption that the harness has no provisions for the factory map sensor. Boomslang recommended get the greddy pressure sensor also. That said, I "T'ed" the vacuum line that goes to the factory sensor to hook in the greddy sensor. Is it possible MAP sensor signal the ECU is recieveng from the stock sensor could be fighting with the MAP sensor signal the EMU is getting from the add in sensor?

-9.5 what? kpa?
Ok, you're set relative. -69 rel = 31 absolute.


Ah, didn't realize your work blocked imageshack. Sorry.

No. There is no provision for a MAP sensor of any kind in the main harness connector of the EMU, only the "option" port on the front.

Other than KPA what? sounds like muy cheapo sensor may be working properly? I printed the info you have me with the exception of the pictures and had it with me, the logger had the pressure sensor values in KPA. Could'nt for the life of me figure out how to switch to voltage. I deleted the AF adjustment map as you suggested. Unfortunately during the week I work all day and go to school late so I don't have a lot of time to play.

I'll post the link for the sensor I bout when I get home. Can't get to ebay from the work computer either. These government computers are pretty strict.

Below is the ebay link for the el-cheapo map sensor. It is a 3 bar 5v

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...2em118Q2el1247

Hmmm. That's a v-manage they show it plugged into, and the connector is different from the one on the regular EMU MAP sensor.

You're gonna need a handheld vacuum/pressure pump with gauge and just plot the calibration of this thing. Or just bite the bullet and buy the real one.

I just did, it may be fine, but I'd rather not take a chance on it.

I'm leaning towards believing the pressure sensor I bought may be my problem. Reason... At around 5K RPM the car acts like it's hitting boost cut. Very similar to when you hit a certain boost level on the factory ECU (boost sensor). I used the greddy pressure sensor setting for the ebay boost sensor because it came with no information. So I'm thinking the reading are not accurate. I'll find out in a few days when I get my real greddy sensor.