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Old 02-03-2008, 02:14 PM   #1
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Default Suggestion on EMU adjustments

Yesterday I installed my AEM wideband and 460 CC injsctors in my MSM. After looking at the data logger looks like all parts are working. It idles great and runs great below 4000-4500 rpm. After that, it will cut out bad and/or feel like it's loading up on fuel. Before the injectors it ran great at all RPMs. Where should I start with the trouble shooting? I'm guessing somewhere in the mix, the injectors are not doing something right. I used .06 for lag time in the right column, what about the left side, should there be a value there? Any thoughts?
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:07 PM   #2
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Sounds like you're doing fine in closed-loop, but running too rich in open-loop.

The two lag time boxes are basically looking for a differential between your old and new injectors. I had good luck running 0.65 in the left and 0.8 in the right. These numbers were pure guesswork, but they seemed to do the job. Try that and see if it improves anything.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:10 PM   #3
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Please post a copy of your .em2 file and a log (.lg2) file of when it's not running like you think it should. With that we might have enough information to make relevant suggestions.

Do you have your air fuel target map enabled? What is the air fuel ratio above 4500 rpm? Lots of questions the map and log could answer.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:15 PM   #4
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I did a data log just before I called it a day, I'll see if I can figure out how to post it.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:48 PM   #5
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Set up log is my current configuration and the other is my data log
never mind, had an error trying to upload file. I'll try again

Invalid file extention. Guess I need to figure out how to load the file first
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:02 PM   #6
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winzip is your friend.
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:26 PM   #7
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Goy em zipped and loaded. Hopeully I this will help. On the data log file, basically select area I thought might help and did a few runs around the block.
Attached Files
File Type: zip LOG1.zip (80.9 KB, 6 views)
File Type: zip SETUPLOG.zip (962 Bytes, 15 views)
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:06 PM   #8
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What version of the EMU software are you running? I am on 2.13 but your log doesn't appear to be that version, so the values aren't very helpful.

Does your EMU recognine your tps? None of your injector maps have any fuel correction under boost. I would suggest that if your TPS is registering you set the values on the A/F Target tab to use the I/J Adjustment Map 1 instead of Airflow Adjustment Map. Lower the water temp to 75 degrees, and the throttle position to around 40, the start tome to 10 and change the feedback amount to 5%.

Drive it around very carefully like that, prefferably with the PC hooked up. You should start to see some changes in the i/j adjustment map. That is a good thing. The changes will show on the pc. You need to save the map on the PC, then re export to main unit in order for them to become persistent. If you drive around without the pc it will still make the corrections, but you have to hook up the pc and save the changes then re export for the EMU to keep them.

Let me know if that helps things. The key is a) the I/j adjustments are showing up , b) that you save it on the pc and export it back to the EMU and c) that you take it easy as the adjustments work themselves out.
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Swearingen View Post
What version of the EMU software are you running? I am on 2.13 but your log doesn't appear to be that version, so the values aren't very helpful.

Does your EMU recognine your tps? None of your injector maps have any fuel correction under boost. I would suggest that if your TPS is registering you set the values on the A/F Target tab to use the I/J Adjustment Map 1 instead of Airflow Adjustment Map. Lower the water temp to 75 degrees, and the throttle position to around 40, the start tome to 10 and change the feedback amount to 5%.

Drive it around very carefully like that, prefferably with the PC hooked up. You should start to see some changes in the i/j adjustment map. That is a good thing. The changes will show on the pc. You need to save the map on the PC, then re export to main unit in order for them to become persistent. If you drive around without the pc it will still make the corrections, but you have to hook up the pc and save the changes then re export for the EMU to keep them.

Let me know if that helps things. The key is a) the I/j adjustments are showing up , b) that you save it on the pc and export it back to the EMU and c) that you take it easy as the adjustments work themselves out.
I'll give this a try. I am using the version 2.16, the newest one.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:41 PM   #10
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Made the changes and did another log. it seem to be a little better but not a lot. Lower RPM and part throttle still great, more throttle and more RPM sucks. How long do you need to drive autotuning before the maps should start to smooth out?
Attached Files
File Type: zip Log2.zip (962 Bytes, 5 views)
File Type: zip SETUPLOG2.zip (962 Bytes, 9 views)

Last edited by msydnor; 02-04-2008 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Sounds like you're doing fine in closed-loop, but running too rich in open-loop.

The two lag time boxes are basically looking for a differential between your old and new injectors. I had good luck running 0.65 in the left and 0.8 in the right. These numbers were pure guesswork, but they seemed to do the job. Try that and see if it improves anything.
I have an FM 02 signal modifier on the car. The MSM has this issue where the boost come on strong at around 4500-500o RPM. It an open loop close loop issue. On the MSM, the FM O2 mod tricks the ECU into open loop (i think) earlier and gets rid of the surge. When you mention that it look OK in closed loop, It makes me wonder I should get rid of the FM O2 clamp?
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msydnor View Post
When you mention that it look OK in closed loop, It makes me wonder I should get rid of the FM O2 clamp?
Absolutely not! It means that I think you've got the injector trim wrong, and the ECU is hiding this fact by compensating it in closed-loop.
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Absolutely not! It means that I think you've got the injector trim wrong, and the ECU is hiding this fact by compensating it in closed-loop.
From what you see in the files, nothing that can't be corrected with some tweeking correct?
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:06 AM   #14
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I'm thiking part of my problem was that I have not given the autotune feature enough time to work. Most of what I had done up to know was short 5 mile trips. I drove to work today with it autotunning and by the time I got there it had smoothed out considerably. It hitting 5500 rpm before it starts to act up, where as yesterday it as closer too 3500-5000, and, it was crappy during anything other than part throttle. I do have one more question, for now anyway. On my maps, i.e injector and AF maps, should I select the greddy pressure sensor or the hotwire V? Which one is better? does it matter that much?
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msydnor View Post
Made the changes and did another log. it seem to be a little better but not a lot. Lower RPM and part throttle still great, more throttle and more RPM sucks. How long do you need to drive autotuning before the maps should start to smooth out?
It should start smoothing things out pretty quickly at the settings I suggested. I didn't see those changes in the map you attached. I made the suggested changes to the attached map. I didn't change anything else. But, I am on version 2.13 and in the middle of too many things to upgrade so use at your own risk.

--Chris
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File Type: zip msydnorSetuplog2.zip (967 Bytes, 14 views)
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Swearingen View Post
It should start smoothing things out pretty quickly at the settings I suggested. I didn't see those changes in the map you attached. I made the suggested changes to the attached map. I didn't change anything else. But, I am on version 2.13 and in the middle of too many things to upgrade so use at your own risk.

--Chris

Thanks, yeah, I looked at that after I saved it, or so I thought, I must of not saved it properly. I'll try the one you sent me. I really apretiate the help
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:07 AM   #17
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Do you have any values in the i/j adjustment maps when you look at them. Nothing shows up in mine. It might be that my older 2.13 is just not reading your 2.16 maps correctly.

I am in the middle of tuning my new setup and don't want to introduce any new variables so I can't upgrade right now to look at your logs etc.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Swearingen View Post
Do you have any values in the i/j adjustment maps when you look at them. Nothing shows up in mine. It might be that my older 2.13 is just not reading your 2.16 maps correctly.

I am in the middle of tuning my new setup and don't want to introduce any new variables so I can't upgrade right now to look at your logs etc.
After driving to work today I do. There was not in the map I posted yesterday. I'm guessing either it was saved inproperly or the autotun had not been running long enough to really fill them in.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:41 AM   #19
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Great. I take it you are driving to work with the PC connected to the EMU.

If so, I suggest this routine.
When you get to work, before you turn the car off, save the map, then export to main unit. Now you can turn the car off, and the map on your PC and the one in the EMU are the same.

I would drive it with those settings, using that routine for a few trips, then gradually turn down the feedback amount. You should notice things running much better after just a couple of cycles. When you get the feedback down to .5% and things are running the way you want, you can quit having the pc connected and doing the save/export thing. At that point you can either leave the A/F target map enabled or not. I don't think it really hurts anything to leave it on, but without connecting the pc, you won't be saving any of the adjustments it may be making on your behalf.

Does the car seem to be doing better now that some of the injector correction cells are populated?
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Swearingen View Post
Great. I take it you are driving to work with the PC connected to the EMU.

If so, I suggest this routine.
When you get to work, before you turn the car off, save the map, then export to main unit. Now you can turn the car off, and the map on your PC and the one in the EMU are the same.

I would drive it with those settings, using that routine for a few trips, then gradually turn down the feedback amount. You should notice things running much better after just a couple of cycles. When you get the feedback down to .5% and things are running the way you want, you can quit having the pc connected and doing the save/export thing. At that point you can either leave the A/F target map enabled or not. I don't think it really hurts anything to leave it on, but without connecting the pc, you won't be saving any of the adjustments it may be making on your behalf.

Does the car seem to be doing better now that some of the injector correction cells are populated?
This is exactly what I did today. By the time I got to work I notice the injector map had a lot of corrections in it. Also, by the time I got there, I could apply more throttle with less issues. Still no full throttle, but I could get a lot high in the RPM band before it started loading up. Feed back??? which menu setting is that under. Hate to sound like an idiot, but when it comes to the EMU I am....quick learner though.
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