Very lean (2,8-4,6K rpm)...O2 clamp prob maybe?? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-12-2009, 08:30 AM   #1
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Default Very lean (2,8-4,6K rpm)...O2 clamp prob maybe??

Hi guys,

Although I have not posted before, I've been around in the forum reading and learning a lot of usefull things in the past few months, and now I need your help.

I finally got around installing EMB (with greddy MAP) and olderguys O2 clamp last weekend...
I went out with a friend and we started making a map based on some base maps of his for the same psi(he's got a MP62).
The strange thing is, that although the clamp seems to be working (it goes to open loop as soon as the boost goes above 0,5 psi), the mixture is very lean between 2800 and 4600 rpm. I measured the o2 clamp voltage and it was 0,30 volts. I then reduced that to 0,26 volts and the mixture instead of becoming richer it became even leaner...
Here are the links to the logs I took (using alpha tools and having connected my LC1 to the MAF2 port) and also the map I am currently running on the EMB.

2nd-gear.csv - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage (2nd gear)
3rd-gear.csv - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage (3rd gear)
current-setup.GSC - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage (my current map)

here is also a pic of my maps

emb-maps.jpg

My setup is the following.
2001 vvti with JRSC M45, EMB, greddy MAP, O2 clamp, LC1, a/a ic, J&S safequard, 150mm crank and 59mm sc pulley, walbro pump, running at 8,5 psi.


Any ideas about what is going on??

edit: I forgot to mention that before installing the EMB, I had a pc pro installed, which worked fine in the area that the problem has arised.....

Last edited by stav; 03-12-2009 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:20 PM   #2
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Geia sou stav.

Why dont you simply add some more fuel to your map ?
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:31 PM   #3
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did it...nothing changed... also if you see the map, you will notice that I am already on 90% in some rpms....i also tried acc enrichment, but nothing changed either...
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:40 PM   #4
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How much lean are you afrs ?
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:59 AM   #5
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here 2 graphs of my afr's in 2nd gear pulls

without acceleration enrichment
2ndgear.jpg

with acceleration enrichment
2ndaccmap.jpg

(the actual afr's are about 0,2 units lower than that on the graphs, but doesn't make much difference)
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:30 AM   #6
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I think the problem is from the clamp. I had a similar problem and i've found a cure thats working for me.

I got the simulated narrowband line from the zeitronix and put it on the oem ecu. Now i dont run a narrowband neither a clamp.
Car runs perfect from then.
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:08 AM   #7
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well, I got the simulated NB signal cable from my LC1 lying around in the glovebox, so I guess I can try that on the weekend...the strange thing is though, that the O2 clamp is supposed to richen the mixture, when the ECU tries to have it around stoich...even with the simulated signal, isn't that supposed to happen?? what makes that not happening??

Did u connect the line from the NB straight to the ECU?


PS: u got a pm on our greek forum
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:50 PM   #8
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Recheck your wiring of the O2 clamp. Feeding a lean signal to the ECU at the O2 input should definitely allow it to richen. Anything else connected to the narrowband that could be interfering? Are you sure you are breaking the O2 sensor line going to the ECU?

Cannot read your logs. Can you post log files from the EMB? (LGI and LGD files)
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:03 AM   #9
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I will re-check the connections today...the logs I have attached can be opened with an excel-like program. I use open office (The graphs I have attached are from those logs.)

Unfortunatelly the emanage alphatools only save logs in that format...and I can't log the AFR on the emanage support tool....

I forgot to mention that yesterday I adjusted the voltage to 0,16V on the clamp and it seemed to have made things slightly better...

I will keep experimenting and post my findings here...
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:52 AM   #10
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After doing some datalogging during the weekend, i am even more confused...first of all the lean thing happens only when I am at low revs and step on the gas....if I am for example at 3K rpm and floor it everything is ok...
I even removed completely the clamp and nothing changed...so there seems to be a problem when I go full throtle from low revs..it behaves as if the clamp stops working for a few seconds...
Another thing that I am thinking of, is that maybe the factory injectors aren't sufficient anymore and that I need some bigger ones (I do have in hand some 305cc injectors from Supra)...but on the other hand the factory injectors were just fine when I was using the pc pro for fuelling....
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stav View Post
After doing some datalogging during the weekend, i am even more confused...first of all the lean thing happens only when I am at low revs and step on the gas....if I am for example at 3K rpm and floor it everything is ok...
I even removed completely the clamp and nothing changed...so there seems to be a problem when I go full throtle from low revs..it behaves as if the clamp stops working for a few seconds...
Another thing that I am thinking of, is that maybe the factory injectors aren't sufficient anymore and that I need some bigger ones (I do have in hand some 305cc injectors from Supra)...but on the other hand the factory injectors were just fine when I was using the pc pro for fuelling....
If the clamp is hooked up correctly and fed the boost signal, it should actually be more evident at low revs. Feed 12 volts to the red and black wire and measure the voltage with a digital voltmeter from black(negative) to the white.

Also check to see that the screw on top of the switch is backed all the way out to the top and blow into it to see that it activates. You could also check the change in the switch electrically with a continuity meter, since you have it uninstalled..
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:29 PM   #12
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i did those checks at the clamp and it looks ok ( the sensor actuates at about 1/2 psi, and the voltage it sends when in boost is the one I have adjusted it to send...)..so there must be something else thats going on...
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stav View Post
i did those checks at the clamp and it looks ok ( the sensor actuates at about 1/2 psi, and the voltage it sends when in boost is the one I have adjusted it to send...)..so there must be something else thats going on...
Make sure you have the correct wire for the O2 sensor to ECU.
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Old 03-18-2009, 03:18 AM   #14
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Ι am pretty sure I got the correct wire (4W on the ECU of a 01 miata)...I even tested the voltage as you told me in your email, and it oscillates between 0.15 and 0.8 volts when engine is warm...

If it was the wrong one it shouldn't be working fine in all cases but the one with WOT from 2K, should it??
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:40 AM   #15
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I just recently installed the emanage with with an Innovate WBO2 and I was using the EmanageTools 3rd party software to datalog. I noticed the same thing that according to the EmanageTools output log that I was running a bit lean even though I had fuel table maxing out at higher boost, even 100%--a nono I've understand.

The funny thing is I never ran lean on the WBO2 gauge. I eventually came to realize that the Emanagetools datalogged AFR was like 1 point leaner than the WBO2 gauge. I have since disconnected the analog signal that was going to the emanage. I had all grounds at the ECU. My hopes is that my gauge is correct as I've paid a bit more for it.

Also, I was wondering about the EmanageAlphaTools software you have. Does it have the options outlined in red in this pic below--"Map" tab, "autotune"?
3-19-200912-25-43AM.png
I captured that screenshot from this forum/site HERE

The EmanageToolsAlpha files I have does not open/initialize. The version that

I have seems to just be in a download zip folder labeled EmanageTools, but does not have the options I outlined in red.
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:16 AM   #16
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hi dzaster..

my alphatools version does not have the autotune option either...(and all the red outlined options you have on the screenshot.

As far as the readings are concerned in my case it is due to the different grounding...I do see the lean thing on my wb too, but about 0,2 points richer than that on the alphatools datalog...(I too have the innovate LC1 wb)
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:49 PM   #17
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I could have totally lived with 0.2 off, but 1.2 no. I've read elsewhere that someone was off by a whole point like I was on the EmanageTools software datalog as well, but only that one reading. Everyone else seems to have success with it.
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