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Old 08-03-2007, 02:31 AM   #1
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Default WB, Autotune, EMB, HELP!

Alright, I have FINNALY installed my Inovate wideband. My set up is as follows,

Car is a 93 1.6 with Greddy kit and Starion intercooler

1. Emanage Blue
2. Wideband
3. Stock o2 in stock location
4.Autotune
5. Base timing -6
6. Emanage map from olderguy to add timing (reverse of normal)

I can't for the life of me remember the thread where this was discussed in great detail. I remember it saying in order to get the best tune I should hook the 2nd output of the Inovate wideband to the brown wire of the Autotune. This would tune it in real time and allow my car to run at it's best?

However alot of other people are running the 2nd output to the Emanage blue. I won't be datalogging everyday so I don't think this would be as helpful to me. I also remember the alpha tools need to be downloaded.

Which should I do? I think running the wideband to the Autotune is best, but I can't remember that thread. Sorry for the long post, thanks.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:29 AM   #2
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I pretty much has the same set up as you do, but I am still running the AUTOtune unit off NB feed. LC-1 is just there to monitor.

Correct me if I am wrong, The output of a simulated narrowband is not as accurate as a chemical narrowband, which will repeat very nicely. Some could say WB feed is more efficient, may be I am just too damn lazy to wire it up in the Autotune. I had heard and seen WB fails, then you will be left out to dry.

Either way works.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:06 AM   #3
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I need to get the bung added for my WB02.... however, the plan is to wire it up to the Air-Flow Metre-II input on the EM, and datalog for tuning. Then I'm still going to run the autotune off NB....

Also one of the outputs for the WB, will go to the old NB AFR guage I have in the dash, so I can monitor most of the time, if I need to.

Dave,
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:58 AM   #4
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Some simulated narrowband outputs can be fed to the Autotune instead of a narrowband signal. Many of them(like Zeitronix) are not a true narrowband simulation and will not operate correctly.

Wideband signals can be used with the early Autotune units with seven wires coming out of the unit. The mapping for the Emanage is completely different and is offered at an additional charge.

I do NOT recommend a wideband signal feed to the Emanage through the Autotune for the simple reason that the voltage scale is the reverse of a narrowband.

If the signal fails to reach the emanage for any reason(wire breaks, WBO2 fails) the Emanage will default to running the engine lean with the chance of burning it up.

If the narrowband signal feed fails to reach the Emanage through the Autotune, the engine defaults to rich. Worst case, you bog rich.
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:33 PM   #5
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I do have one of the early Autotunes, it has the brown and blue wires if I remember correctly. I would check the autotune documents you sent me Olderguy but I'm not at home.

If I did run the WB to that input what would it do? How much is it for the new emanage map?

Given the option to run the 2nd WB output to the airflow 2 or Autotune which would you recommend? Thanks alot.
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:30 PM   #6
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You wouldn't get any better control with the WBO2. The best way is to log the WBO2 (Mine is a Zeitronix with separate logging capability) and use it to fine tune the Autotune by changing one number in the map until the AFR is exactly what you want.
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:31 AM   #7
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I will just wire the 2nd output to the Air flow II spot. I'm going to search for the writeup, thanks alot.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:47 AM   #8
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Hi Guys,

I have asked Bruce this exact question by email today.

Yet another useful topic, let's hope it's safe from being wiped... :gay:

*runs and hides*
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:32 AM   #9
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If you can't find the old thread.... download the emanage tools software, I think it's still v 1.0.0.2 -- but I haven't checked for updates in a while.

Then you run the WB into the AFM-II port (it's the same as the vtec output wire IIRC).

You should be able to datalog with the EM tools then... I was doing it with the NB O2 signal, but the values I was getting were really weird, since the voltages were all wrong.

Dave,
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Old 08-09-2007, 11:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeed1point6 View Post
I will just wire the 2nd output to the Air flow II spot. I'm going to search for the writeup, thanks alot.

Updates us with your progress, please!

Thanks
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:15 AM   #11
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If you don't have a wire in the AFM-II on the the harness, you need to add on. I took the wire out of a PC power supply, the connector worked well, and I had it around.

Hookup the WB to that feed, then you can configure the voltages, etc.... in EM Tools. When I was doing this with the NB, it worked easily enough. I just had the problem with the NB voltages, not being accepted by the software, since it was really looking for a 0-5v scale, even though, I was telling it about a 0-1v.

Dave,
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
Some simulated narrowband outputs can be fed to the Autotune instead of a narrowband signal. Many of them(like Zeitronix) are not a true narrowband simulation and will not operate correctly.

Wideband signals can be used with the early Autotune units with seven wires coming out of the unit. The mapping for the Emanage is completely different and is offered at an additional charge.

I do NOT recommend a wideband signal feed to the Emanage through the Autotune for the simple reason that the voltage scale is the reverse of a narrowband.

If the signal fails to reach the emanage for any reason(wire breaks, WBO2 fails) the Emanage will default to running the engine lean with the chance of burning it up.

If the narrowband signal feed fails to reach the Emanage through the Autotune, the engine defaults to rich. Worst case, you bog rich.
Hey Bruce,
Typical WB feed is 0-5V, 0 lean to 5 rich. So I don't quite understand your point here. Furthermore, most of us run the Innovate LC1 WB, which has a completely programmable output curve. So if you wanted 4.95V at 20:1 and .05V at 10:1, it's just a couple mouse clicks away.

B
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:21 PM   #13
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IF the WBO2 output is low voltage lean, high voltage rich, then the signal can be substituted for a narrowband input by just changing the 50% target voltage. The outputs that I am familiar with are the reverse of that (Zeitronix, PLX).

Your posting caused me to check out the LC-1 and the instructions do seem to indicate a programmable output that is low at lean and high at rich, so that output could be adapted without my cautionary warning.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelrat View Post
If you can't find the old thread.... download the emanage tools software, I think it's still v 1.0.0.2 -- but I haven't checked for updates in a while.

Then you run the WB into the AFM-II port (it's the same as the vtec output wire IIRC).

You should be able to datalog with the EM tools then... I was doing it with the NB O2 signal, but the values I was getting were really weird, since the voltages were all wrong.

Dave,
HI Steelrat,

Is this the latest updates for EMB, that I could use for AFM II.

Base 1.20 / 1.40
update 1.20 / 1.40 (rollback)
update 1.22 / 1.42
update 1.24 / 1.42 (1.42 fix)
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:49 PM   #15
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When I was testing this, I was using the 1.40 firmware, but I have since upgraded to the 1.49.... version of the software.

To datalog it though, (I don't think you can use the stock greddy software)... I was using Emanage Tools, v 1.0.0.1 which is available online from another site

http://www.slcrotary.com/eManageTools/publish.htm

You can download the software, but you need to have Microsoft .Net Framework v2 installed.

I was using it, and it seemed to datalog OK... and you could see a screen with the AFR + RPM.... Don't think I tried to add the AFM-II to the normal EM software logs though.

Dave,
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:14 AM   #16
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So? What is the best set up with the EMB + Autotune + WB LC-1?

miataspeed1point6 - how is your set up now?
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:53 AM   #17
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My EMB is now in the garage, in a box, on a shelf. I bought a Megasquirt n spark.

EMB just does not seem like a very good setup for me. I always needed one more band-aid, it limits my hardware choices, keeps the AFM, it was difficult to setup for me and I just became annoyed with it. I know it works well for most, but it just fought me every step of the way.

I do thank Olderguy for helping me out so much. I honestly do appreciate him going far beyond what he needed to. I just can't take it anymore. The car has run on the EMB for a total of 3 days (I have owned the EMB for over 2 years!!). On the 4th day it "forgot" my maps and it was letting the engine knock. I disconnected it and put it in the garage. I will be putting the whole thing up for sale soon.

E-manage blue, farewell and good riddance.
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