Go Back  Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. > Performance & Tuning > ECUs and Tuning
Reload this Page >

1.6 GTX2867R Fully forged Build. Possible Knock!

ECUs and Tuning Discuss Engine Management, Tuning, & Programming
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

1.6 GTX2867R Fully forged Build. Possible Knock!

 
Old 01-28-2016, 03:30 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 93
Total Cats: 6
Default 1.6 GTX2867R Fully forged Build. Possible Knock!

Good afternoon,

Recently just rebuilt my engine.

Main Spec Info:
Forged Rods
King Bearing
Wiseco 8:5:1 pistons 79mm
Supermiata Pulley
boundary oil pump + 2 shims
Ported Head
EV14 850cc
GTX2867R with T25 plus turbine housing
Turbosmart EWG @ 1bar
3" exhaust system
MS2e from Rev
Bosch Knock Sensor (Located above oil pressure sender + shielded wire)

Find attached log file and msq.

The ignition map has had 4 degrees removed from Rev's original map.

I have spoken to Rev who has confirmed that it looks like possible det.

But I also went to the stage of removing another 6 degrees and it gave the same readings and still pulled slight bit of timing on a run.

I'm a little concerned and it would be great if you guys could give your input.

Just engine noise and too sensitive knock sensor?

The confusing bit is that I'm running less timing that I did with the standard engine on a TD04H-15G 8cm/2 turbine housing. I know it's a GTX2867R so will flow much much more.

Any advise would be great.

Cheers
Attached Files
File Type: msq
msqfile.msq (117.9 KB, 219 views)
File Type: msl
2016-01-28_19.14.11.msl (1.01 MB, 99 views)
Lawone is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 03:33 PM
  #2  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,141
Total Cats: 3,144
Default

so you pulled 10* total and it still did the same thing?
sounds like just too sensistive
18psi is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 03:36 PM
  #3  
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,693
Total Cats: 109
Default

You've put a non-factroy knock sensor on a block that never came with one in a location not optimized for it.

So, no, it's not necessarily det. I guess Rev does a better job of filtering the signal, but it's still never going to be a factory optimized knock sensor.

You could make det cans, just to be sure. 10 degrees at 11.5 and 200kpa seems pretty safe to me though.
deezums is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 03:37 PM
  #4  
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,141
Total Cats: 3,144
Default

I never trusted those aftermarket knock sensor. ever
and yes, 10 degrees at 11.5 and 200kpa is really safe on a built engine
18psi is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 03:44 PM
  #5  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 93
Total Cats: 6
Default

Attached logs of running a fair wack of timing removed and you can see it detects knock.

I hope it's just over sensitive.

You could be right. It may be worth investing in a OEM knock sensor.

As you can see from the attached log. I'm running less than 7 degrees in boost and it see's knock :S.

I've doubled even tripled checked the TDC of the pulley and made sure the markings are correct when timing the engine up.

It would be a wise idea indeed to hook up a set of det cans and see if it really is knocking.

Are the DIY make them yourself det. cans good enough compared to a proper brought kit?
Attached Files
File Type: msl
2016-cxvxcv01-28_18.00.27.msl (397.7 KB, 84 views)
File Type: msl
2016-01-28xcv_18.03.06.msl (290.8 KB, 76 views)
Lawone is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 03:46 PM
  #6  
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,824
Total Cats: 269
Default

I doubt it's knocking either. I'd build DIY det cans or read the plugs. Det cans are awesome.
patsmx5 is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 03:49 PM
  #7  
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,693
Total Cats: 109
Default

Originally Posted by Lawone View Post
Attached logs of running a fair wack of timing removed and you can see it detects knock.

I hope it's just over sensitive.

You could be right. It may be worth investing in a OEM knock sensor.

As you can see from the attached log. I'm running less than 7 degrees in boost and it see's knock :S.

I've doubled even tripled checked the TDC of the pulley and made sure the markings are correct when timing the engine up.

It would be a wise idea indeed to hook up a set of det cans and see if it really is knocking.

Are the DIY make them yourself det. cans good enough compared to a proper brought kit?
There never was a 1.6 miata knock sensor, and it for sure isn't tuned for heavy rods and pistons. Even if you did find one, it wouldn't do you any good on the megasquirt, all the filtering would have been done in the stock ECU.

DIY electric det cans are where it's at.
deezums is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 04:15 PM
  #8  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,583
Total Cats: 240
Default

Euro-spec 99+ 1.6L cars came with a factory knock sensor - the same as the 99+ 1.8L cars.
__________________
Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
Reverant is offline  
Old 01-28-2016, 07:45 PM
  #9  
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 18,481
Total Cats: 1,628
Default

Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Euro-spec 99+ 1.6L cars came with a factory knock sensor - the same as the 99+ 1.8L cars.
Same knock sensor? Where was it installed...now I want a knock module for my ms3.
aidandj is offline  
Old 01-29-2016, 02:52 AM
  #10  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,583
Total Cats: 240
Default

Same sensor, same spot on the block as the 99+ 1.8L.
__________________
Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
Reverant is offline  
Old 01-29-2016, 04:03 AM
  #11  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 93
Total Cats: 6
Default

Thanks for the advise guys.

I've sent Rev over a few more log file to work out if it is true knock or just the sensor being over sensitive.


Photo of knock sensor location for reference. M8 Heli coil in a m10 hole. It's tight enough to hold the knock sensor.

Attached Thumbnails 1.6 GTX2867R Fully forged Build. Possible Knock!-24316844179_d3e6777b9d_b.jpg  
Lawone is offline  
Old 01-29-2016, 01:55 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Roselle, Illinois
Posts: 849
Total Cats: -34
Default

Who makes the oil sensor plate?
Hot_Wheels is offline  
Old 01-29-2016, 02:29 PM
  #13  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 93
Total Cats: 6
Default

Just an ebay one. It's used for the oil temperature sender. Then a mocal sandwich plate for the oil cooler goes on.


I have attached another log file and MSQ.

Log file here as over 4mb. - Mega File Upload - 2016-01-29_18.37.13.msl

Showing some much stronger pulls. If you guys don't mind letting me know what you think if you get time. It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Attached Files
File Type: msq
2016-01-29_19.20.30.msq (118.0 KB, 212 views)
Lawone is offline  
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
dvcn
Miata parts for sale/trade
10
02-09-2016 09:19 PM
Shibby
Miata parts for sale/trade
16
01-29-2016 11:01 PM
VRRMPSH
Miata parts for sale/trade
4
01-28-2016 08:41 PM
btabor
Engine Performance
16
01-27-2016 04:47 PM
elektron
Engine Performance
5
01-25-2016 03:15 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: 1.6 GTX2867R Fully forged Build. Possible Knock!


Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.