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Old 10-19-2009, 07:40 PM   #1
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Default apexi airflow converter?

so im going the band aid route with my turbo set-up planning on pickin up a bipes, vortech fmu with 1.8 injectors , and O2 clamp. But i met a guy at work selling a Apexi S-AFCII. So i researched and found this-
Apexi SAFC Air Flow Converter from AlamoMotorsports
They do have a diagram for the miatas so i was wondering has anyone used one before? worth it? He wants 200 cad for it, brand new in box.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:52 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by whitemiata View Post
so im going the band aid route with my turbo set-up planning on pickin up a bipes, vortech fmu with 1.8 injectors , and O2 clamp. But i met a guy at work selling a Apexi S-AFCII. So i researched and found this-
Apexi SAFC Air Flow Converter from AlamoMotorsports
They do have a diagram for the miatas so i was wondering has anyone used one before? worth it? He wants 200 cad for it, brand new in box.
200 for a cheap POS airflow signal modifier (that is what the apexi safc is)
100 for bipes (guesstimating price)
100 for an fmu (guesstimating price)
50? for injectors
50? for o2 clamp

500 bux for ******* BANDAIDS

VS

roughly 300-350 for MS that will control ALL YOUR FUEL/TIMING NEEDS and have all the potential for big power
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:01 PM   #3
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here is the problem with apexi's and other piggybacks that work in the same way

basically, when you 'tune' the fuel, your not actually controlling the injectors, youre just modifying the signal coming in from the AFM/MAF sensor, and this sensor controls both fuel AND TIMING.
So lets create a hypothetical situation.
You put in some 305cc supra injectors, which give you more fueling capabilities but cause you to run rich everywhere except for when you in max boost, so you say 'hey i can just use my apexi to tune down the fuel". So you do that and get your AFRs right using the apexi by basically modifying the AFM/MAF signal to tell the computer that the engine is flowing less air than it actually is, but what you dont realize is that you didnt just pull fuel away, but you also advanced timing.
So you start your car up, get into boost, the apexi advances your timing to 40 degrees and you start detonating hardcore and melt a piston.
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:36 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by whitemiata View Post
s... with 1.8 injectors ....
So I'm assuming you have an NA6?

If you are not inclined to build your own MegaSquirt, hunt around for a used Plug'n'Play unit, or get pay someone like Braineack to build one for you.

One MegaSquirt unit is far superior than Bipes and S-AFC. Do your research and you'll find Apexi's product, although as pretty and user-friendly as they may be, does not have the functionality of many other, even cheaper products.
MegaSquirt will also change ignition and many, MANY other things necessary to have your car run and idle smoothly.

No need for an 02 clamp.

Unless you are running high boost (over 14psi) you probably won't need any uprated fuel pressure regulators.

It sounds like you've done things backwards. Am I assuming correctly that you installed a turbo kit and are still running the standard EMS?
If that is the case, you DEFINITELY need something like MegaSquirt, Adaptronic, Haltech etc. even if you can't find a used one at a cheaper price, buy a new one, there is no way around it.
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:41 PM   #5
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no im just getting all my parts together, tdo5, bipes, o2 clamp, vortech fmu, 1.8 inj, intercooler and custom mani and down pipe, and im only runing 6 psi. just came across this and wanted to see what people thought, i was guessing it was going to be pointless seeing as no one seems to use em,
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
200 for a cheap POS airflow signal modifier (that is what the apexi safc is)
100 for bipes (guesstimating price)
100 for an fmu (guesstimating price)
50? for injectors
50? for o2 clamp

500 bux for ******* BANDAIDS

VS

roughly 300-350 for MS that will control ALL YOUR FUEL/TIMING NEEDS and have all the potential for big power
im not buying safc,got injectors off old parts car so that leaves me with est. 250 bucks in bandaids yes i know ms pnp and other untis are way more advanced and better set-ups but i have access to people locally that have gone this route and it works great and they have experience with it so thats how im gunna do it
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:50 PM   #7
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Its not that no one seems to use them, its that everyone realized how primitive and inferior it is to a true engine management system.

Its your car, your choice, if you want to you 1980's technology for barely any power increase and next to no control vs full control and all the potential for more power no one will stop you.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:04 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by whitemiata View Post
no im just getting all my parts together, tdo5, bipes, o2 clamp, vortech fmu, 1.8 inj, intercooler and custom mani and down pipe, and im only runing 6 psi. just came across this and wanted to see what people thought, i was guessing it was going to be pointless seeing as no one seems to use em,
its not pointless because no one uses them, nobody uses them because they blow **** up...
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:50 AM   #9
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back in the day it was common to use an safc along with msd 6 btm the safc is still used a lot for dsm guys i'm not sure why though.
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Old 10-28-2009, 06:58 AM   #10
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...is still used a lot for dsm guys i'm not sure why though.
For looks.
You can't mount an aftermarket EMS box on your dash and have it look pretty.
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:59 PM   #11
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I've seen the apexi AFC's (S-AFCII and Neo) do pretty awesome things with mildy modified cars. At the shop I used to work at, we installed a Neo in a bone stock 2003 350Z and picked up 17 whp through dyno tuning. So in some sense, it's a great little power adder if you can get it for a good price. But in terms of engine management, it really isn't that at all. You get a pidly amount of control through the screen, and that's it. Hell, even the e-manage blue is a better system. If I was you and didn't want to go with a full stand alone, your best option would be to find a used AEM F/iC and use that. At least it has a built in map sensor, can accept a wide band O2, adjusts timing, and has it's own injector drivers.

As others have said, megasquirt is probably your best option.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:06 PM   #12
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I've seen the apexi AFC's (S-AFCII and Neo) do pretty awesome things with mildy modified cars.
No such thing as a mildly modified turbo Miata, though.

(Unless it started as a Mazdaspeed.)
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMX-5 View Post
For looks.
You can't mount an aftermarket EMS box on your dash and have it look pretty.
It'll be several months yet before I can even start on the new car, but once it's done, I'm going to prove this point very, very wrong.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:14 PM   #14
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No such thing as a mildly modified turbo Miata, though.

(Unless it started as a Mazdaspeed.)
Completely agree. I had a S-AFC2 on my NA 1.6, and it gave very little gains. It seems to work best on bigger motors where the manufacturer was lazy about tuning. It worked quite well in various Skyline RB26's as well, but once again, only in midly modified form. If they wanted big turbo, injectors, etc, it was taken out of the car and something like a Haltech was put in.

Actually, it's best application is probably as a V-tec controller for Honda's, but for their price, might as well just get Hondata.

If OP is dead serious about only doing a flow converter, Gizzmo makes one that's about half the price of a new Apexi, and their stuff is good.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:15 PM   #15
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It'll be several months yet before I can even start on the new car, but once it's done, I'm going to prove this point very, very wrong.
I've always wanted to mount my AEM EMS somewhere people can see it. Such a shame to have it hidden.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:16 PM   #16
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I once considered band-aids and inferior EMUs as well.

Everyone told me to just go ahead and get a MS.

Best turbomiata advice I ever got...and am damn glad I took it.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:05 PM   #17
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the only rear problem with piggy backs, isn't really with piggy backs it's that no one wants to stay at 5-9 psi everyone wants 12-15 and 220-250 whp. if someone was completely content with 150-200 hp piggys would probably be fine.
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Old 11-01-2009, 12:29 AM   #18
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I have an old school one with the ***** i got for free on my 95...... but when i ordered a turbo kit... i ordered a MS. By the time i bought all the crap i needed to make my cool little spinny **** thing work. I coulda just bought the ms anyway. And i still wouldnt have really had what i wanted... Get a MS
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Old 11-01-2009, 12:59 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by 94blackmx5 View Post
the only rear problem with piggy backs, isn't really with piggy backs it's that no one wants to stay at 5-9 psi everyone wants 12-15 and 220-250 whp. if someone was completely content with 150-200 hp piggys would probably be fine.
thats not true
that may be true with an emanage with injector and ignition control, but not with an apexi that simply modifies the AFM/MAF reading
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:24 AM   #20
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safc is still used a lot for dsm guys i'm not sure why though.
Every dsm i know of spends 11 months parked and 1 month on the road.... go figure.
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