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Old 01-23-2010, 09:09 PM   #1
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Default EMS Questions

I am currently running hydra and it is confusing. I want to run the easiest to set up EMS system standalone or piggyback that will allow me to run 230-300 whp that is good. I am currently running the hydra system I think it is difficult and since I daily drive this car I want reliability and ease of use. I have seen the Xede systems and mspnp systems also AEM and others. Any help would be nice. if there is an easier out of the box system or set up wise I would probably sell this set up and purchase what ever. Thank you for all the help.

P.S. I notice that the Xede systems do not have a area on here are they self managing or nicer systems? What is the reason for this?

Last edited by mach5; 01-23-2010 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:41 PM   #2
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I believe what you are looking for is called "Adaptronic".
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:47 PM   #3
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So I can run decent horse power on this system with easy tuning? Also I see there are two different systems sold by adaptronic which is the one everyone is using here is it the 999.00 one? I have been doing a bit more research on the system and it looks good I would just like to know everyone else's opinion on what the easiest systems to use are. Thank you.

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Old 01-23-2010, 11:03 PM   #4
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach5 View Post
So I can run decent horse power on this system with easy tuning? Also I see there are two different systems sold by adaptronic which is the one everyone is using here is it the 999.00 one? I have been doing a bit more research on the system and it looks good I would just like to know everyone else's opinion on what the easiest systems to use are. Thank you.
Everyone here is running the first generation but; if I were you I'd consider the second generation if money is no object. I read a post by y8s not too long ago and he was saying he was really impressed with its capabilities.

You'll get a lot of support for it here.

I run an AEM and even though I'm finally pretty happy with how my car is running; it sure took me too many months to get to this stage!
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:51 PM   #6
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Is y8s running adaptronic? I understand he realy knows his stuff. I just want a good stable system with good power capabilities and easy to use and set up.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:55 PM   #7
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MS


really really easy to use, hell im half ******* retarded and i can operate it!


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Old 01-24-2010, 01:07 AM   #8
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I just looked at the adaptronic softaware and I have to say it looks much simpler than the hydra ATM. I still need to look at the mspnp.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:13 AM   #9
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I am currently running hydra and it is confusing. I want to run the easiest to set up EMS system standalone or piggyback that will allow me to run 230-300 whp that is good.
Do you have a Hydra Nemesis?? The Nemesis supports a wideband and is capable of doing "ballpark" autotuning; I'm not sure how much easier it gets than that. If you are confused by the Hydra, I'd question the wisdom of you buying another EMS just because it is "easier to tune". All EMS tuning systems have a learning curve that needs be climbed.

Link, Hydra, MS, SDS, etc.....the one thing they all have in common is the capability to let you melt your pistons and turn your engine into shrapnel in an eye blink if you don't tune properly. If you can't get comfy with the Hydra, pay a qualified tuner to tune your car on a dyno. It's a lot cheaper than replacing the Hydra and you'll have before and after maps to review and learn from.
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:10 AM   #10
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Like SN95 says...

If you can't figure out the Hydra, there's no reason any other engine management is going to be "easy" for you. They really are all the same except for minor differences in the user interface and minor differences in the way ancillary ECU functions are handled. If you can tune one, you can tune them all. And if you can't tune one, well...

I'd suggest keeping the hydra. It is a good system and easy to use for a daily driver. Plus you have Flyin Miata behind it. I ran one for a few years and many thousand miles and it was fine. I made a cross country trip with it.

Go read the manual for it a few times from cover to cover. Learn what all the functions do and how the car behaves when you change them.

The rest of the knowlege just comes from reading various tuning forums and playing with the system (conservatively, so you dont blow **** up).
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:46 AM   #11
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And again y8s what EMS are you currently running?
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:09 AM   #12
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Go read the manual for it a few times from cover to cover. Learn what all the functions do and how the car behaves when you change them.

The rest of the knowlege just comes from reading various tuning forums and playing with the system (conservatively, so you dont blow **** up).
I get what Mach is saying. I read the AEM manual more than a few times (believe me many more times than a few! ) and it turned out to be a much longer process than I thought. A lot of us are not that mechanically inclined as some of you.

Mach, the MS is by far the simplest one. I had one in my car for a few days and indeed it is much simpler to understand but..... if you want an ems that works well and has support here, go for the Adaptronic.

And yes; I think y8s is currently running an Adaptronic in his car.

FWIW; after what I went through in setting up my AEM, I wouldn't recommend it for anyone with no prior tuning knowledge. In any case, if you decide to buy it, I'd be more than willing to help you out with my very limited knowledge.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:48 PM   #13
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And again y8s what EMS are you currently running?
irrelevant. it is my third and not last EMS in the miata most likely.

I might have had an AEM if some more of the research on reading the NB triggers and controlling VVT had been done a few months earlier or I had waited a few months longer.

What do you find difficult about the Hydra software that makes you want to ditch it? Which version do you have?
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:19 PM   #14
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2.5 12 it might be my com port to usb but was getting huge spikes in it and it was getting way off. Also I was told that it has cold start options that I still cannot find. I would like a system that can auto tune and adjust settings via afr automatically.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:17 PM   #15
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hydra cold start settings:

1. Cranking enrichment: Select > Control 2 > Cranking enrichment
2. Post Start Enrichment: Select > Control 1 > Post Start Enrichment
3. Coolant temp trim: Select > Control 1 > coolant temp trim

Hydra autotune settings:
1. Autotune AFR Target: Select > AFR Target
2. Autotune rate (higher is slower, leave around 16-32): Select > Control 3 > Autotune Rate
3. Other autotune settings: Select > Settings > Closed Loop...
* Enable Closed Loop
* Enable Auto-Tune
* Lower RPM limit 1500
* Upper limit (up to you, I use redline)
* Sensor source: wideband target table


If you have serial connection problems with your computer, changing engine management wont fix them.

And if you dont take the time to learn the system you have, you'll be twice as irritated when you spend another thousand dollars on a different EMS and it doesn't do all the work for you either.
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:44 PM   #16
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Mach5,

You first posted a request for a Hydra base map (in the Hydra sub forum) in late October of last year. Instead of spending $60.00 and getting a good base map from Jeremy at FM, you have been struggling with getting your car running with the Hydra for almost 3 months! You could have been driving the car with a safe base tune 2.5 months ago if you had bought the FM base map. Has 3 months of jerking around been worth the $60 you saved by not buying the FM base map and getting FM support? Why are you willing to buy a new $1,000 EMS but unwilling to spend $60 on a base map?????

The Hydra is a good EMS and will support a ton of power. Take a look at Jason's (JayL) build thread and look at how much power he is making with his 1.8L VVT Hydra tuned car. 11 secs at 120mph in the 1/4 is awesome; he has sooo much power that he just eases the car out the hole (look at his 60' times) and still run 11s! He has also invested a lot of time and effort in dyno tuning his car to get it dialed in (and avoid melting his built motor).

You've got a quality bottom end in your motor, but it can still be damaged with a bad tune. While you can tune a car without a dyno, it takes a lot more time and effort. If you don't have any good dyno tuners down in STL, I can try and help you locate some qualified tuners in the Chicago area. If you still want to do your own tuning; here is a thread I suggest that you read and re-read repeatedly before you start your tuning efforts. This thread is specifically targeted towards Evo tuning, but the tuning concepts and methodology that are clearly explained are applicable to tuning a turbo Miata:
How To Tune an Evo - evolutionm.net
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:13 AM   #17
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I have paid for a base map from jeremy and have purchased the Wideband O2 from him. Also the shop that does all my work has been jerking around with me putting my hydra on Long term auto tune they have failed to do a proper tune on the Dyno. I have struggled with them to tune my car and have tryed to tune it myself and when doing so I ended up with some HUGE!! spikes and kept having to go back to base map that jeremy sent me. I do currently have my shop working on it and as far as the built motor that is as off since I blew it up on the hydra system running to lean on top end. I have bought my pistons crank and others from FM and support them. MONEY is not and issue. I just want a fast car with no issues and personally don't want to mess with it at all. I don't car to DIY or other. If I can learn it that is great but it has been nothing but head aches. Please just don't assume.

Thank you Y8s I will check out the following in attempt to educate my self further.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:25 AM   #18
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Sorry Mach, my bad for assuming you didn't get the base map from FM. It really sounds like your current "tuner" is incompetent with Miatas and totally jerking you around. Is your car driveable with the base FM tune? I know of a couple of good dyno tuning shops in the far west Chicago suburbs that should be able to safely tune your car. PM me or email me if you want to go that route.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:34 AM   #19
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Its a long story but purchased the FM system used had to purchase furtherer parts to make it work such as the Wide band. Shop never tuned it properly. Recently blew it up on the highway going way to fast and running way to lean actually smashed the hell out of the bearings. I am really on the shops *** now to tune it properly this time. If not I would either like to take it to FM and have Jeremy tune it but that would not be until spring or later in finding time. Chicago would work as well if I new a good reliable no bullshit tuner that new what they where doing. My shop one of the owners is a teacher at a local technical school and teaches tunning although I don't believe he has done his research on the hydra nor does he care to. I am pretty sure I could pay him more and would not get any further tunning. If anyone knows any good tuners around the Midwest that can tune my car I would appreciate it. I am almost at the point of scrapping the whole car. To much time and money and worries.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:59 AM   #20
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Please get your car away from that shop before they do more irreparable damage to it! I don't know of any reputable dyno tuner that would let a customer's forced induction car leave their shop running LEAN on the top end. AMS in West Chicago has been tuning all-out forced induction sport impacts for a long time. Here's a link to their website:

4G63 | 4B11 | N54 | VR38VETT | EJ25 | Leading Turbo Tuners for Drag Racing | Road Racing | Time Attack | Martin Musial | Chris Black | AMS Dyno Tuning

I have been to their old shop (club dyno day) and was really impressed with the quality of their work and their attention to detail as well as their safe tune vs. borderline tune philosophy. Their new shop is about twice the size of the old shop and has an even better dyno. You'll be hard pressed to find a better tuner than Martin.
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