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Haltech, FM221, opinions?

 
Old 01-27-2017, 09:17 PM
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Angry Haltech, FM221, opinions?

Hey guys, not sure if this is the best place to ask, but I'm looking for some thoughts/experience/redirection to help.

I have a 6 speed '02 SE with a BRP mp62 on 140/62.5 pulleys from trackdog, as well as their I/C, bigger injectors (not sure size), and.. their piggyback 'power cards', fuel & timing. (also dual throttle bodies with dummy with IAC post I/C.) Unfortunately I've been having problems (see below*) that I feel need to be solved with a standalone. I'm currently (stationed) up in Washington, near Spokane, and I've hardly seen any mx5's, not even boosted. It seems most performance shops around here love haltech, as well as one of my coworkers who's close to a shop owner. He keeps telling me to get haltech, so I was gonna go with it.. then I saw flyin miatas new standalone, FM221 (https://www.flyinmiata.com/fm221-nb.html) so I'm at a little fork. It looks good and would be couple hundred dollars cheaper, but my friend said no one would be able to tune it. Now I'm just a noob so I dont know a whole lot about tuning. Would it be that risky to get hardware they haven't touched before? Are they that much different that they can't use haltech knowledge to help understand FM's tuning? I was told by FM that the software is available to test with..

*Problems
Lets start with the power cards. According to Gary from trackdogracing, they should be easily tuned within 20-30 minutes road tuning. Add a couple points in fuel here and there... That wasn't the case. In some ranges, we had to add close to max to get it mid 11 afr at WOT, but then it'd end up way to rich in regular driving nonboost, say while backing up. It seemed a tap of throttle would just drown it. We're talking ~8-9 AFR. Even just backing up. This would cause it to drop RPM's and usually stall**. If we adjusted to have good values elsewhere, WOT would be way to lean (16).

^Possible reasons?

I've cleaned my maf multiple times, actually got desperate and bought a new one, cleaned out throttle body, deleted my cat, had a custom intake built ( $600 job, got rid of the plastic accordion-like plastic tubing)
One thing I can think of, my o2 sensor going to my afr gauge has gone bad.. twice. I'm assuming it's from it being too rich, too much. If this is the case, I can only imagine what's going on with bank1, sensor1. No CELs to indicate anything. I'll probably replace it soon to see.
I've been told that NB's ecu's are 'too smart' for piggyback cards and they keep adjusting each other, battling over AFR.

**Stalling.
Idle droop? Not sure what it's called, but I've read a lot of people having this issue. Dropping throttle from above 2000 rpm, either drops to ~400, almost stalls, revives back to idle speeds, or completely stalls/ almost stalls, goes up, almost stalls/stalls.
This happens very often when slowing down, doesnt matter if downshifting or throwing it in neutral. It happens when I'm on the clutch, too.

Bucks.
Related to terrible AFR probably? Mostly in 1st or second gear with steady throttle ~2000-3000rpm, it'll start bucking (like Austin Powers running out of **** behind the statue in Goldmember)

The 6000 drown.
Doing a pull in pretty much any gear, if WOT, once it crosses over 6000rpm loses power and bogs down (gets rich). Possibly belt slip past that point? How would I be able to tell? Also, simultaneously... right when it happens around 6000rpm, its at 10 lbs boost.. then the boost gauge will spike to 15+
I'm not sure how this is possible, SC's can't build boost? I'm not too knowledgeable how all this works, something to do with the smoke that came out of the bypass actuator when I had it smoke tested? (also looking to replace that) Or something to do with the placement of boost line to gauge?
I think I've read before that this could also be the crankshaft sensor?

There's more small crap that bugs me but lets not cry every problem at once. Main question is: Do you think I should go Haltech or FM221 ? Thanks for reading, any help appreciated, about anything mentioned.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:46 PM
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Sounds similar to my 2000 when I had a BRP on it. I was able to get most of the idle droop out of it with the MS2 I always had some. People talk about fully operating TB to fully cure it.

I took care of it by going to a turbo setup and used the TDR intercooler setup off the supercharger with some piping changes to the hot side (cold side stays the same).

I may have a 2nd pulley around + a spare throttle body if you want to screw with it.

Someone else can answer the ECU question, I went with a MS2E at the time and probably would go with the MS3 now if I was doing it all over.

The MS isn't one of the options you listed...
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex Capraru View Post
Would it be that risky to get hardware they haven't touched before?.
Yes. If all the tuners around you know and prefer Haltech, buy a Haltech. I'm sure they're smart enough to figure out the FM221, but you'll be paying them for that time that they spend learning it and the price difference will probably end up being less than you think. If you aren't tuning the car yourself, you're completely at the mercy of your tuner. FM221 is a gamble. Haltech is guaranteed.

I have an Elite 1500 in my car and really like it. Had a megasquirt before this and liked it too. The Haltech hardware is much higher quality, but the price reflects it.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:24 PM
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Are we talking about PNP, DIY?? MS is the first thing I ever heard of, but.. kind of gave up because I wasn't really sure where to get one. Everywhere I was looking I only saw ones for NA's or NB1's and I dont want to try to make my tuner put one together by himself, having never really worked with them (or even my car. they mainly do DSM's and honda/integras, dont know if he's ever even touched a miata.)
If there's someone that can find me one that'll be good for my setup and not too much of a headache for my tuner (not trying to spend dayssss of tuning, ie him figuring out what he's doing), then I will surely consider it. <---- Another thing. How simple/complex is the software?

Your 'idle droop', was it just stumbling rpm's or would it often stall? I don't care if I have an erratic, it's just annoying stalling out everywhere. makes me look weird randomly revving all the time as I come to a stop.
Also, did you ever hear something about relocating IAC to fix the problem? That's something that was suggested, but IAC's part of the dummy throttle? Not sure if those are easily swappable, holes line up? + fitting my intake
Thanks
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex Capraru
Are we talking about PNP, DIY?? MS is the first thing I ever heard of, but.. kind of gave up because I wasn't really sure where to get one. Everywhere I was looking I only saw ones for NA's or NB1's and I dont want to try to make my tuner put one together by himself, having never really worked with them (or even my car. they mainly do DSM's and honda/integras, dont know if he's ever even touched a miata.)
If there's someone that can find me one that'll be good for my setup and not too much of a headache for my tuner (not trying to spend dayssss of tuning, ie him figuring out what he's doing), then I will surely consider it. <---- Another thing. How simple/complex is the software?

Your 'idle droop', was it just stumbling rpm's or would it often stall? I don't care if I have an erratic, it's just annoying stalling out everywhere. makes me look weird randomly revving all the time as I come to a stop.
Also, did you ever hear something about relocating IAC to fix the problem? That's something that was suggested, but IAC's part of the dummy throttle? Not sure if those are easily swappable, holes line up? + fitting my intake
Thanks
On powercards the car constantly stalled coming to a light or stop sign. On the MS rarely and usually a really hot day at that but it would stumble at times. Like I said my cure was to go to a turbo.

Somewhere I have a remote IAC valve bracket but never actually put it on the car.
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:17 PM
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For dual throttle body, there is one before the supercharger and one on the intake manifold or? Supposidly that helps with idle droop, stalling and throttle responce (I am putting mine in as we speak, so I won't have first hand experiance until spring).

And yes, if you won't be tuning it yourself, get what your tuner tells you to get.
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