Help isolate fuel problem
 

So #3's plug is wet, car runs like its on three cylinders, and it's getting spark. How should I go about isolating this problem to the injector or the computer?

Back in November I was at the track and the fuel pump decided not to prime. I jacked with it for hours, then it magically worked and has worked since. However, it's basically run on three cylinders ever since. I have no idea what's going on but now my arm is finally strong enough to turn a wrench so I can work on it.

If a driver were hung open on the injectors would fuel flow when the car is not running but pump primed?

If you're not running sequential, it seems like you could swap injectors between the cylinders and injector harness plug between cylinders. I remember reading a JP write-up on how the MS injector firing worked somewhere. If you can do this, see if it follows the injector or the harness plug??

Just thinking out loud, BTW. There's probably a better way.

If you had a stuck injector, it could do anything from full on spray to just weeping. If the pump is primed, the system should have some pressure.

Which car? Green or white?

Green.

Could it be screwed up and not working properly, or is this a dead give-away that I have other problems?

Remove injectors, replace them with automotive 5-15W light bulbs.

The bulbs should be glowing about the same when you crank. All should be off when not cranking.

I don't know. But that's the first thing I would check. I like Reverant's idea of using bulbs to test the connections.

Not sure how to check an injector other than removing it and seeing if it's leaking/spraying with the car off.

Is there any reason why the plug would fire outside of the engine, but not when screwed in? I'm a little confused right now, something is not right but I can't tell what or why when using a multi-meter. I guess it's time for the lights.

Not unless the wire is borked. If there's a break, putting the plug in may open up the break, but it's in contact when the plug is pulled out.

I'd test the wire for continuity.

Plug wires have continuity, plugs 2&3 do not reek of fuel. 1&4 are clearly burning fuel. I swapped coils (I have a new pair) and no change. Now I guess it's time to see if the injectors are seeing any voltage.

To output test mode I go!

BTW, it's cool how you can turn-off the fuel pump for test-modes in MS3, balleur as fuck.

Does each injector have it's own driver, or are the drivers shared?

using injector test mode, all 4 injectors cycle audibly with the same pattern. Is this a reliable method to confirm they are working properly?

When I test the coils I see .5v on coil A (#1/4), .2v on coil B (2/3) measuring both at the OEM connector, coils obviously unplugged since I'm not talking about electrical shock. Thoughts?

any coolant in cylinder 3?

It doesn't appear, but the piston crowns are wet. I'm leaning toward a coil issue. I can swap coils around between old and new, #2&3 never seem to fire. I guess it's the wiring?

Any recommendations on a spark plug test light that I can shove up my VVT coil for easy confirmation?

Injectors 1 and 3 share the same driver on a 1.6L. The same goes for 2 and 4.

So if this was an injector driver inside the ECU, two cylinders would be affected at the same time.

A grounded out spark plug will tell you if you have fire.

Pull out all the plugs, disconnect your coils and turn on your fuel pump.
When you crank, do you a see any extra fuel or a mist of fuel coming out of the affected cylinder ?

Finger on coil and output test mode :idea:

Do I need to do this if I hear them opening? I did the test with the fuel pump off.
I would use my penis but I don't have much feeling left in that thing from all the dolphin "relations".
Cool, but does it matter that this car has sequential fuel? The test tells me everything is working properly on the fuel side. What are your thoughts on the coils and do you have a recommended testing procedure?

Thanks for the help, all.

Do you know if they are closing ?

Had a fuel pressure regulator go bad once and all the extra pressure would blow right by the weakest injector putting out the flame.

Have you converted to sequential fuel?

If so, have you performed the test I described (replace all 4 injectors with light bulbs, test each driver/"injector" using the output test mode.

Do you still have the stock 90-93 coils?

Yes
No, it's $100 so I was trying to get around that. I guess it's time to get out my wallet. Listening for the audible clicking noises from each injector is insufficient for a test like this?
No, this is VVT with VVT coils, son.

Is this what I want? I'm not sure which plugs into the EV14 from the pictures and searching is failing me.
Kent-Moore J-44603 Noid Light (Bosch 2) (J44603)

Wow, such expensive. doge_face.jpg

Ok get just one to test each driver individually, and if need be, get more.

Very thanks for the help.

Try swapping the injector with another cylinder to see if the problem follows that specific injector or that injector output.

Why are you guys focusing on fuel and not the coils? Serious question. The injectors seemed to work normally, audibly in test mode, the coil clearly did not in test mode.

Do you have a cheapo HF compression gauge?

One coil lead reads half the voltage of the other and you think the engine is blown up?

You said it is getting spark. My assumption is if spark is functioning correctly, you're dumping in too much fuel. Even if you can "hear the injectors" who is to say the injector is coming completely closed/getting hung open?

Swapping bad cylinder injector with another and having the problem on the same cylinder would immediately rule the whole fuel thing out. Then you can say without a doubt it's a spark problem.

Or your engine is blown.

It's you...so yeah

Then swap coils? If shipping back and fro' weren't a pain in the dick I'd lend you my set of VVT coils.

The wires going to the coil read 2 and 5v, so swapping the coils won't matter, and I"ve already swapped them around with my spares.

So, wiring before the coils. Pinched wire, bad solder/crimp joint, faulty connector.

Now I get it. Time to break out the DMM.

I can clean and flow your injectors for you if need be.

Dude, I measured with a multi-meter, lol. I guess it's time to chase wire.

I used a spark-plug light to determine that each coil is at least activating the light.

So today I used the multi-meter to determine that each injector is firing in test mode with similar voltage numbers. (The light I bought won't work, so I might have to buy another.) Injector A is the only injector that made a mist of fuel shoot out the spark-plug hole when using test mode, the rest did not but they are clearing squirting fuel. Time to rewire and replace injectors?

Do an EBay search for noid light set. You can get a 6-8 piece set for less than $20. They'll have different sizes to fit the various Bosch and Denso injectors.

Finally scored noid lights and it appears that all is well on the computer end. This means that wrenches must come out and I must smell like fuel.

Squirters checked out fine, now I'm drinking on it. Any thoughts or inspiration?

....and now the fuel pump won't turn on.

Edit:
Unless I manually turn it on in the test window. Weird.

So, wiring good, injectors good. Pump starting to die?

Some setting in the ECU off?

The pump turns on when activated in test-mode. Does someone want to dig through my MSQ that I'll post in a few days when I get my replacement SSD? Yes, two dead HDDs in one year.

:crickets:

You have fuel, you have spark, it should run if the engine is ok. Compression test?

I'd be no help there as I am still a MS noob.

The fuel pump will not turn on with the key, again. I can manually switch on the fuel pump in the output test window. That's unrelated to a lack of compression.

I'll test compression on Thursday or Friday, when I get my new SSD for the dead notebook...again.

I'd say that points to wiring or the settings. If it's intermittent, I'd lean towards a wiring or even the switch.

I'll check compression when I get the personal computer working again.

Witch switch? How could it be a wire issue if I can still activate the pump manually?

The fuel pump won't turn on if your TPS is more than the "flood clear" settings.

Datalog?

Fuck yes, I love you and want to be with you, too bad you're married and probably into dudes.

I remember that TPS is still whacked-out and reads either 1000%+ or 0%. I never got the TPS to work and just used EAE. Shit, I've been chasing my tail. Even when I ran the wire outside the car, through the window, it still read whacked-out values. I changed the TPS right before this happened.

I feel more relieved than embarrassed. I'm not sure how to fix the TPS problem, it's been rewired and replaced on more than one occasion.

Is there anything I can do to totally disable the TPS and rely solely on EAE?

EAE also requires normal AE to work properly.

I'm about to burn the car.

How can I isolate the problem to the TPS, wiring, or computer? Ouzo? The TPS was not whacked-out on the old MS2 computer.

Unplug TPS and switch to MAPdot not a workable (temporary) solution?

I still can't get my TPS to work properly. Well, it works, but until I raise the threshold above some crazy value, it trips out.

MAPdot FTW.

Get me a few photos of your TPS setup.

What do you want to see? How can I isolate a noise problem?