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Old 05-22-2014, 02:31 PM   #1
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Default Hydra vs Megasquirt

Going to buy a standalone ecu and I know that both of them functionality wise will do the job. I want to start off naturally aspirated then eventually add boost into the equation. What i want to know is what would be better for me (having done absolutely no tuning whatsoever and i understand jack **** about tuning) learning to tune? ease of use? better support? initial start up?
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:29 PM   #2
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The benefit of the Hydra is that you can call up Jeremy @ FM during business hours and get tons of support. It's also supports some advanced features that MS does not, which you may or may not care about (I think CAN-BUS is one, for example). The downside is that it's expensive.

The benefit of the MS is that it's cheap, and you can read a lot about it on the web.

So, if you don't care about the advanced features (look at FM's site to find out what all it does), then it comes down to how much time do you want to want to invest in learning about tuning on your own by reading stuff on the net, vs how much money do you want to spend to have direct support from FM.

You also need to decide on MS2 vs MS3.

--Ian
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:32 PM   #3
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The benefit of the Hydra is that you can call up Jeremy @ FM during business hours and get tons of support. It's also supports some advanced features that MS does not, which you may or may not care about (I think CAN-BUS is one, for example).
--Ian
That specific example is totally wrong; all the MS2s and MS3s support CAN bus, in fact there are many devices supporting the MS CAN Bus system (ie AiM MXL, Racepak, etc).
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:51 PM   #4
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I have yet to read a compelling argument for Hydra over MS3
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:09 PM   #5
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I have yet to read a compelling argument for Hydra over MS3
It's blue.



How much more compelling do you need?
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:13 PM   #6
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I'd never get anything that wasn't fundamentally DIY. You gain so much by learning to tune, although it's a steep slope at first.
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:17 PM   #7
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It's blue.



How much more compelling do you need?
sold......I'll send a couple thousand extra to pay for the future firmare updates too
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:34 PM   #8
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I'd never get anything that wasn't fundamentally DIY. You gain so much by learning to tune, although it's a steep slope at first.
Thats what I'm worried about.... i know that its a steep slope for learning how to tune but in the end it would be worth it... i don't like other people touching my car unless its something i can't do. I'm just afraid i will blow a motor and then be out of a car i dumped assloads of money into.

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sold......I'll send a couple thousand extra to pay for the future firmare updates too
Though the blue color is compelling i do dislike the fact that Hydra owners have to pay for firmware updates. its so costly that i might as well buy another ems.... but I'm attracted to the support that is offered if i buy through FM.
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:37 PM   #9
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All of this feedback is bringing up a ton of good points that i haven't thought about. i really appreciate it all. Keep it coming guys! How good are the base tunes for the megasquirt and how hard is it to really learn and be proficient at tuning my own car?
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:37 PM   #10
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What about the completely unadulterated support you can receive through this forum?
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:43 PM   #11
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What about the completely unadulterated support you can receive through this forum?
Though i am sure the support through this forum is great being almost all of the DIY'ers use Megasquirt i am really worried about MY ability to learn how to tune without blowing **** up, and still making decent power.
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:47 PM   #12
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Not to mention after an hour or so of reading i still have absolutely no idea what the difference is between MS2, MS3, or MSPNP and which one would be ideal for me. I don't want to build my own, simply don't have the time or patience working with circuit boards. Im leaning toward the MSPNP Gen 2 because it is plug and play which will eliminate a lot of the time/frustration on my half. But are there benefits to the other ems?
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:53 PM   #13
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Just have Reverant or Braineack build the MS for you and setup a base for you to work from, they are good about supporting people. I'm not really into building the thing or tuning the thing myself, but I installed an MS3x in my car that Brain built and it's been relatively trouble free, though if you are crappy at doing wiring/soldering you will need to work on that.

If you really want assured support all the time then buy the PNP from DIY and they will walk you through any issues that happen, but you still need to learn how to do your own wiring/soldering.

The MSPNP is an MS2 with add-ons and the MS3 and MS3x expand upon the capabilities of the MS2 systems with additional features and higher resolution tuning tables.
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97miatanola View Post
Thats what I'm worried about.... i know that its a steep slope for learning how to tune but in the end it would be worth it... i don't like other people touching my car unless its something i can't do. I'm just afraid i will blow a motor and then be out of a car i dumped assloads of money into.


Though the blue color is compelling i do dislike the fact that Hydra owners have to pay for firmware updates. its so costly that i might as well buy another ems.... but I'm attracted to the support that is offered if i buy through FM.
I think the cost to update to Hydra 2.7 was $500+ depending on which previous Hydra you had. To put it into perspective you can build a brand new MS3X for not much more then that.

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Originally Posted by 97miatanola View Post
All of this feedback is bringing up a ton of good points that i haven't thought about. i really appreciate it all. Keep it coming guys! How good are the base tunes for the megasquirt and how hard is it to really learn and be proficient at tuning my own car?
If you go to diyautotune.com Matt and Jerry are authors of a very good about about ECU's and tuning. I would suggest picking it up and giving it a read before you make any decisions.

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Originally Posted by 97miatanola View Post
Though i am sure the support through this forum is great being almost all of the DIY'ers use Megasquirt i am really worried about MY ability to learn how to tune without blowing **** up, and still making decent power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97miatanola View Post
Not to mention after an hour or so of reading i still have absolutely no idea what the difference is between MS2, MS3, or MSPNP and which one would be ideal for me. I don't want to build my own, simply don't have the time or patience working with circuit boards. Im leaning toward the MSPNP Gen 2 because it is plug and play which will eliminate a lot of the time/frustration on my half. But are there benefits to the other ems?
Realistically you want some form of a MS3X. It is the latest and greatest MS that has current active development. All the others are older, will work, but the future upgrade path is not there and you might be missing some features that are nice. I believe Reverant can make you a pnp one that comes with a decent basemap.

Is the miata your DD? If so I may suggest that you don't put in an ECU until you have another car you can use for when the miata is down. If you start NA like you said the chances of actually blowing up the motor are slim, it is doable, just a lot harder then doing it with boost. I only suggest not installing an ECU on your DD because of the learning curve involved. Yes it is possible to do and come out alive with a working car, but the risk involved is high, especially if you do not know what you are doing.

So go pick up the book by Matt and Jerry. Here is the official MegaManual for Megasquirt. I suggest you start reading it now and get familiar with it all.
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:10 PM   #15
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The benefit of the Hydra is that when the next version comes out FM can give you some bullshit excuse about your old version not being compatible with Windows 7 and so you need to spend half a grand on a software upgrade that doesn't do **** to get support. You also get the joy in spending twice as much on a box that doesn't do anything better than MS3x. Also nobody will tune the things, so unless you live in CO pretty much get fucked

--Ian
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:17 PM   #16
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that's pretty much accurate
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:20 PM   #17
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I have no idea what Albumleaf is talking about.
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I think the cost to update to Hydra 2.7 was $500+ depending on which previous Hydra you had. To put it into perspective you can build a brand new MS3X for not much more then that.



If you go to diyautotune.com Matt and Jerry are authors of a very good about about ECU's and tuning. I would suggest picking it up and giving it a read before you make any decisions.





Realistically you want some form of a MS3X. It is the latest and greatest MS that has current active development. All the others are older, will work, but the future upgrade path is not there and you might be missing some features that are nice. I believe Reverant can make you a pnp one that comes with a decent basemap.

Is the miata your DD? If so I may suggest that you don't put in an ECU until you have another car you can use for when the miata is down. If you start NA like you said the chances of actually blowing up the motor are slim, it is doable, just a lot harder then doing it with boost. I only suggest not installing an ECU on your DD because of the learning curve involved. Yes it is possible to do and come out alive with a working car, but the risk involved is high, especially if you do not know what you are doing.

So go pick up the book by Matt and Jerry. Here is the official MegaManual for Megasquirt. I suggest you start reading it now and get familiar with it all.
Yes the Miata is my DD but will have a spare car or another sport bike in the next couple of months so i wasn't going to do anything until that happens. What i am doing now is piecing together a turbo kit slowly and when the time comes install it all, the ems being first so that i can learn how to tune myself...... or spend the few extra bucks and get a hydra.... but then have to pay for updates. In the end i think the Megasquirt is the better way to go for me. But then the question is which one? i know you mentioned that the MS3x is the way to go but its not plug and play. and while having someone build one seems appealing. Is there an online store or shop that builds them AND stands behind their work? its easy for anybody to say f**k it if a brand or business isn't backing them. Know what i mean?
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:25 PM   #19
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Reverant posted in your thread.
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Old 05-22-2014, 05:26 PM   #20
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it is plug and play

repeat

it is plug and play

contact Reverant. give him your money. done

if you make another post with "its not plug and play" I'm gonna post giant penises all over your thread

in fact, its "more" plug and play than a hydra. mind - blown. right?
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