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LC2 freaking out. Replace with?

 
Old 06-18-2017, 09:41 PM
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Default LC2 freaking out. Replace with?

My Innovate LC2 is almost 2 years old and is acting up. I'm getting inconsistent readings out of both the analog and digital outputs and I'd appreciate input on how to handle this.

At first, the digital output was bouncing all over the place and the analog output seemed OK. I'd been seeing this problem the last few weeks after the LC2 lost communication with the sensor and entered an error condition. The LC2 saw the sensor again after a few hours but it hasn't functioned properly since then. I called Innovate last week and they told me to wire power directly from the battery via a relay. I did that yesterday and although everything powers up fine and both the analog and digital outputs agree, the LC2 is giving different readings on the same VE cell at different times.

Is it possible I need a new sensor or should I consider replacing the LC2? As I understand things, the sensors either work or they don't. Certainly it would be less expensive to replace the sensor.

What would you suggest if I need a whole new setup? I searched the forum and the last discussion about O2 sensor options was a few years ago. I'd like something that'll connect via CAN, optimally using the Rev-built interface I'm using now. That means I'd need to pick something that box supports, other than the LC2.

Here are the options as I see them.
  1. AEM UEGO. Retails at $250. What's the difference between the UEGO and the X-Series? Is it that the UEGO has combined gauge and electronics and the X-Series is separate? Digital Wideband UEGO AFR Gauge | AEM
  2. AEM X-Series. Retails at $248. Could I reuse my Innovate gauge with this instead of buying a new one? X-Series Inline Wideband UEGO AFR Controller | AEM
  3. PLX SM-AFR and iMFD. Retails at $180 + $50 = $230. Wideband O2 Touch Screen Multi Guage | Vacuum & Boost, Kiwi 2 Wireless Auto Aftermarket Diagnostic Scanner | Android & iPhone
  4. Zeitronix ZR-3 and ZR-3 gauge. Retails at $209. Maybe I get a ZR-2 instead of the ZR-3 but that's more money. Or maybe I keep my Innovate DB gauge. Zeitronix Zt-3 : Wideband Controller and Datalogging System
  5. 14point7 MegaSpartan. Retails at $249. This unit connects directly to the CAN bus so I could remove the Rev CAN box and resell it. I like that the direct connection would make things simpler and more reliable. It also allows for up to 8 O2 sensors, which is interesting even if I don't need it. On the other hand, there's no analog output so it doesn't support a gauge and I haven't seen much discussion about this unit on the forum. https://www.14point7.com/products/megaspartan
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:26 AM
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I would be inclined to try a $70 sensor before dropping $250+ on a new controller and sensor
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I would be inclined to try a $70 sensor before dropping $250+ on a new controller and sensor
^^^ This first.
Try the old, "Starting fluid on a shop rag test". Remove the O2 sensor - what does it read in free air (should be full lean)? Spray a shop rag with some starting fluid and wrap it around the sensor (PLEASE, make sure the sensor is cooled off, don't want to start a fire). Does it read full rich (or thereabouts)? Does the reading stay steady, or slowly trend towards lean as the starting fluid evaporates (DON'T leave it in there for too long...again, no fires)?

If the answers to the questions are "No", then replace the sensor and re-calibrate. If the answers are "Yes" then you might consider a new unit.

I had so many problems with the LC2 in my car that I replaced it with an AFR500 WBO2 Controller from Ballenger Motorsports. It ran $300, but so far it's been a solid performer and I haven't had a moment of trouble with it after 2+ years of operation.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:53 PM
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Thanks, guys. It would be great if I could solve this with a less expensive sensor than replacing the whole kit. I had tried recalibrating the sensor and saw the expected 22.4. I'm getting readings from the unit but they don't seem to be accurate.

The "before autotuning" VE table shows what I had when I started. It's not totally dialed in because of some other changes I made, but the numbers should be close to correct from idle to 4300 RPM in the unboosted areas. The "after autotuning" table shows some of the effect from yesterday's sensor readings. You can see my MS3 added >10% in the 1100 column and removed >10% in the 2300 and 2900 columns. So based on the LC2's signal, the MS thought the engine needed ~15% *less* fuel at 2300-2900 compared to 1500-1800. That makes no sense to me.

At first I thought the numbers had to be accurate since they were coming from the sensor. When the engine was running around 2900 rpm and I let off the throttle so RPMs would drop, the engine died very quickly. I figure that must result from wildly incorrect fueling. I also tried autotuning the 800 and 950 columns (even though I know we're not supposed to autotune idle) to see what would happen. The MS took out a ton of fuel from those cells and the AFR numbers looked correct from the LC2. When I left those cells and then returned, the LC2 showed very lean AFRs in those same cells it had previously measured as stoich. Then the engine died, presumably through lack of fuel. I'm attaching the tune file and a log of the autotuning in case it helps.

I called Innovate and they said this didn't sound like a problem with the LC2. It seems the sensor should either work or not. The fact that it was sending data that was consistent between the analog and digital outputs means everything is working from their perspective. They offered to test everything if I send it to them.

What do you all make of this?

@Rwyatt365, what problems did you have with your LC2? Anything like this? I'd certainly consider the Ballenger unit but I really like the digital connection via CAN and it appears the AFR500 can't do that. Is that correct?
Attached Thumbnails LC2 freaking out. Replace with?-before-autotuning.png   LC2 freaking out. Replace with?-after-autotuning.png  
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:41 PM
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After a bit more experimentation, I no longer think the problem is in the O2 sensor. I tried running the engine with EGO disabled and seem to be getting good numbers from the LC2 over the digital interface. Even so, the engine just isn't running right. I'd like to close this thread so I can start a new troubleshooting one in the Megasquirt section. I'll catch you over there.
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:49 PM
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Amazon has the UEGO 4110 for 150 shipped.
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