New Innovate LC-2 wideband
 

LC-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Controller

Doesn't require free air calibration anymore.

What is this world coming to? May grab one to test.

Discuss. :party:

From what I am seeing they are making the right improvements. Mounting holes, built in LED indicator, no more stupid terminator plug, seems like a winner in my book. Innovate is always doing good things in the wideband world.

The obvious question is how long until this can digitally communicate with your MS products? :)

It can already no???

Outputs:
Analog
2 x 0-5VDC, 10 bit resolution, programmable

Goddammit I just bought an AEM UEGO since I didn't want to have to calibrate an LC-1.

It already does...hint hint, more to come in a few days.

:idea:

Would mine be the first to do so? (If it were hypothetically possible of course :party:)

Why not get the MTX instead? http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

I personally hate the UEGO

Uhh, the MTX is just an LC-1 inside of a gauge. I don't want to have to calibrate it every 3 months.

MTX-L shares very little with the LC-1.

They share the only thing I care about: they need to be calibrated every 3 months.

I am not sure if it is a "need" or more of something you can do. I think I calibrated my original LC-1 maybe 3 times in the 3 years that I had it on my car. One of those times was right before I went in for a dyno tuning, the other 2 were times when I had everything out of the car and was making changes. Other then that I had zero issues with needing to calibrate it.

Ive only ever calibrated my LC-1 when the sensor happened to be pulled out, or when replacing the sensor. The MTX-L is no different.

Read this about free air calibration:

OMG, no free air calibration, WTFBBQ!!!!!!!!

So, SLC? UGEO? LC-2? What's the most reliable/accurate setup here?

Inquiring minds want to know for an MS3.

I went MTX-L as I like the calibration so I know it's accurate. Also I want a real gauge and the MTX-L comes with one. If the LC-2 remains as accurate without calibration than that is win.

LC-1/MTX is most accurate, they are all decently reliable.

I figure if the AEM UEGO is accurate enough for TSE it's good enough for my purposes.

Why does everyone throw a bitch fit because a wideband can occasionally be calibrated for accuracy?
I calibrate my WB each time before I put it into someone exhaust and its like no inconvenience at all. I don't see how someone doing a permanent install could find this to be so tedious.

"You mean I have to wait like 10 seconds before I put the sensor in the bung!? Fuck that, I aint got all day."

"I have to hook a laptop up to my ecu to tune it? I'll just stick with a RRFPR and a check valve. Why can't I tune from my Iphone?" (basically the same mentality if you ask me)

How is it everyone if I just posted how I like being able to calibrate? I think there was like 1 person in this thread saying they don't like to calibrate.

Why is my statement of why I purchased the AEM suddenly "throwing a bitch fit"?

I want to bolt shit up to my car, and then drive it. I fully know that's not what will happen, but let me dream. I don't want to have to remove the O2 sensor to calibrate it after the calibration goes off, even if it only takes 10 seconds. That's 10 seconds I'll save by using the AEM.

I'll say it.

I don't like to calibrate.

The first time, as per above, it makes rich tuning imprecise.

That sucks.

Every time after that, it requires uninstalling the wideband from where ever it is and doing it again. And again. And again, if you put miles on the car or have it for a while.

If it were a one time thing, and it didn't screw things up, it would be fine, but it's not the case that was represented.

I've always liked the AEM and don't really have anything major against them. But I want to know my sensor is correct.

It's a fact that the sensor will go out of calibration over time. You can be sad about having to recalibrate after the first 3 months and then being fine for 10000 miles, or you can be sad all the time for having a wb02 constantly out of calibration.

On the topic of MTXs, I recall somebody saying the MTX doesn't ground out to the ECU? Making the wideband signal to the ECU not as accurate as the LC1? Is there any truth to this?

I'll be grounding mine at the ECU. I mean you can choose where to ground it... It's just a black wire.

I never said nor meant that you were "everyone" but by that I meant that I see a lot of people wining about calibration like it's some major chore.

I really do think some of you are making the calibration thing out to be more of a hassle than it really is. I've seen them (innovate products) go just fine for extended periods without constant calibrations, I don't calibrate my permanent install widebands constantly and they work just fine. I do however calibrate my lm1 every time I put it into a customers car because its just a matter of pushing a button and waiting a couple of seconds before I screw the sensor in.

Probably.

But since the AEM and the LC-1 both are in widespread use, as a lazy sonofabitch I'll always go with the one that requires less work.

If it's accurate enough for Savington's race cars it's accurate enough for me.

Will MS3 Basics bought from your first run be compatible with it, Rev?

What's funny is for race cars they recommend calibrating it even more often. I find it unlikely he runs the same sensor for long. But I could be wrong. Maybe he can shed some light.

Yes.

You dont seem to know how calibration works. When you calibrate thats it. From there the calibration is stored in your controller until you recalibrate and over-write it. It doesnt magically change the calibration settings to throw off your readings. What happens is the actual sensor in the exhaust starts reading wrong as it gets coated in carbon and other shit coming out of the motor. With the LC1 you can recalibrate and the new calibration will be ok. With AEM on the other hand it is what it is and you're fucked. The only way to get the correct reading is with a new sensor. AEM and Innovate both use the same bosch wideband sensor.

What the fuck are you talking about? That is exactly how I think it works. I'm talking about the AEM being out of calibration all the time. I'm saying you can either man up and get the LC-1 and at least be able to calibrate it and know it's correct, or get the AEM and have a sensor that will read off.

Que? That's pretty much exactly what he said....

That's more of a "want" than a need.

Dirty secret confession time: I haven't calibrated my LC-1 in.... 3 years.


Shit, i didn't even build the calibration circuit into my install. Which is a little annoying, because now i have to figure out how to calibrate it when i pull everything for the next/final step for the F2T: Records, or Blaze of Glory.

I'll just leave this here: "Why do I need to calibrate the O2 sensor with Innovate products?" The answer is simple… Accuracy!

Get past the sales pitch and there are facts in there.

Hmm everybody bitches about having to recalibrate the LC1s, i thought thats what you were saying when by "your sensor will go out of calibration"

An LC1/MTX-L will not go out of calibration any more than an AEM.

So, let me get this straight. The AEM is better because it does not give you the option to calibrate it... that makes sense.

Ive been trying to resist beating the dead horse, but holy fucking shit you guys are going to make me say it.
All this calibration shit aside, the AEM has a screen refresh rate slower the the heart rate of a dead dog. Its a pile of shit, and if it wasn't for it being fairly accurate, and the old LC-1 being slightly too difficult to install for people with a <80 IQ, I would have never recommended the damn thing. I used to recommend it as a good gauge for non-tuners to keep an eye on AFRs, but now with the MTX-L, there is no reason for anybody to buy an AEM.
The MTX-L does everything the AEM does, it does it better, and it is just as easy to install. Most people dont need to throw their AEM in the trash, but buying a new one now is borderline retarded behavior.

The LC-1 has a ground and a sensor ground, so you can hook the grounds up to the right places. Not sure why they deleted this in the MTX-L (it was a good thing).

If you are using a MegaSquirt then it will be reading from an analog out so getting grounds right is very important. My ECU uses the serial data from the MTX-L so it's not so much of a problem.

You sure its analog? I thought Rev said that was corrected long time ago. Either way LC1 supports digital. I'm using it for my Adaptonic.

We had these arrive at our shop last week. Ben's going to be testing one out on one of his own project cars.

Nice mind taking some pics or does it look no different than the LC1?

Pics are in the link Rev posted to start the thread; so far we haven't taken any of our own.

PM'd
 

Demitris
Please contact me (PM or email) re: information needs for MS3 Basic.

How big is the controller relative to the LC1? Reason why i ask is because the LC1 fits perfectly in the little gap in front of the shifter right under the air bag light switch.

It's a bit smaller, and easier to mount due to integrated mounting tabs and the connector is relocated to the harness, instead of integral to the body. It's a better form factor.

The single ground wire is a bit of a mixed bag for me. It's working fine on the MTX-L, but the theory behind the divorced grounds on the discontinued LC-1 is technically better. The problem with the divorced grounds tends to be user error, which I assume is why they went away.

I don't mean to hijack here, but isn't the SLC from 14point7 a purely digital wideband as well? And if so, any advantages to the LC-2 over that?

Why worry about separate grounds? Connect the controller and the gauge grounds together. Whats the problem?

case in point:

lol.

I'm waiting for miata user review and feedback before I consider pulling the trigger.

Because MTX-L has a single ground wire, ground it to the power ground pin of the ECU. DO NOT ground it to the signal ground pin. This is true whether you are using the MTX-L's analog or digital output.

Also DO NOT shorten the MTX-L's wires if using the analog output. I suspect they are doing ground wire impedance compensation and shortening it will throw it off.

I need to get my MS3 Basic running, so I will get the LC-2 and put it in and give it a try. However, I won't have past experience for comparison. Conversely, that might be a good way to judge the completeness of the instructions.

Q: What do I change from the normal hook-up to use the digital interface between WB sensor and MS?

One of these.

TinyIOx v1.0 Board

MS3 basic doesn't support it out of the box.

Or, according to Posts #6, and #29, I need to be patient and wait for Reverant's Revelation.

#6 it'll require your ECU to be sent back and modified. There needs to be an interface between the digital ouptut of the LC-2 and the ECU

#29, just confirms an LC-2 will work with Revs ECU, which it will, using the analogue outputs.

Not really, because I now have an external module that connects to the Zeitronix/LC-1/LC-2/MTX-L/LM-1/LM-2 through their serial port, grabs the data, and pushes it through CAN bus to the ECU.

I've been trying it on my car for over a month now. Works great!

Nice :)

Reverant:

Please forward the details to me, or post. I will proceed with purchase of LC-2, and will need to know how to connect into my MS3 (present loom is set up for the separated grounds of LC-1) either analog or digital. If an internal interface is also possible (for digital input) I have the ability to add it to the PWB if you tell me what and where.

OFF_TOPIC WARNING: Also need to know what to add to make my MS3 Basic 4 spark drives rather than the two now.

+11ty billion to this. I've been waiting on this announcement for some time!

Does this also apply to the original LC-1 (which has separate grounds) or only to the MTX-L?

MTX-L only.

On the LC1, connect the signal ground wire to the ECU signal ground pin.
Connect the power ground wire to the head or block.

I'm guessing this doesn't matter so much when it's not feeding a standalone, correct?