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PNP EMS Options for 97'

 
Old 07-09-2017, 08:29 AM
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Default PNP EMS Options for 97'

Hey guys. I'm looking at PNP EMS options for my 97'.

Here is the PM I originally sent to 18PSI but I figured I should throw it out to the whole forum and see what people say.

Originally Posted by Brap-Brap
Hey man, my name is Alec and i'm just a kid with a Miata who wants to have fun. I bought my first Miata, a red 97' 5-20-2017 but i've been messing with cars all of my life. I got it, changed all the fluids and spark plugs and wires and coils and now she's throwing misfire codes every time I get anywhere close to 6800 RPM. OBD-II just says "Random Misfire" and the CEL is starting to **** me off. I also want more power and full control of my car, so i'm looking into standalone ECU's. Didn't feel like posting a thread, but I did search some things on here to see what's what. I've been a lurker for some time and I know how serious you guys are about good products. I think I nearly pissed myself laughing over the many FFS "For ***** Sake" Supercharging flame threads with Tom the Yo-Yo master. But I would like to go to a standalone EMS and stay N/A for a while before I try going boosted. Keep in mind my car is my daily driver and at the end of the day I need to be able to open the garage door, hop in, turn the key and get going no matter if its 100 degrees in the middle of August or 0 degrees in January. I live in Ohio so emissions is not an issue.

The FM221 caught my eye. Keith has me hooked on things like cold-start, AC compensation, off-throttle fuel control and other stuff that seems nice for a daily.

But, I know how much you guys love Megasquirt (and for a good reason, its a damn good product) and so I wanted some advice. I was looking at the MS2PNP. (EDIT: MS3PNP also seems like an option... more down below...)

I've read this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/hydra-58/...p-hydra-91029/

The ME guys just seem stupid, but FM are good people and I think they have the potential to make it a really great product.

The plan was get an AEM Wideband, GM IAT sensor, wire them up and delete the MAF.

What say you? MS2PNP (Again, MS3PNP, but see below) seems very popular but the options list of the FM221 looks nice.

Thanks.
Currently NA but I plan to go boosted in the future. Do I really need all the options of the MS3PNP or will MS2PNP suffice? What major advantages does MS3PNP have over MS2PNP other than things like "Rally-style anti-lag" and "3 step rev limiting"? I know it has 16x16 ignition map over the MS2PNP's 12x12 but what else is there? Is the FM221 a good product and do the extra options it offers really make a difference?

Thanks.
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:22 AM
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I can't think of any "extra options" the FM221 offers over an equivalent MS for same price.

The droid you want is MS3X or MSPNP-Pro. Is either NECESSARY for your car? Nah. But Shuiend likes to say a few times a week: "If you were going to go buy a new Playstation, would you buy a PS3 or a PS4?"
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
I can't think of any "extra options" the FM221 offers over an equivalent MS for same price.

The droid you want is MS3X or MSPNP-Pro. Is either NECESSARY for your car? Nah. But Shuiend likes to say a few times a week: "If you were going to go buy a new Playstation, would you buy a PS3 or a PS4?"
Good analogy.

I was under the impression that the FM221 offered cold start enrichment and A/C compensation.

I also thought the FM221 had boost by gear over the MS3 but I was mistakenly looking at the spec sheet for the MS2PNP. The MS3PNP seems to have everything I could possibly want except starting patterns and A/C comp/ control. Although maybe FM is touting that as a feature yet the geniuses at MS just stick it in standard and assume everyone going Standalond EMS is smart enough to know about those things. Still looking for more input.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Brap-Brap View Post
Good analogy.

I was under the impression that the FM221 offered cold start enrichment and A/C compensation.

I also thought the FM221 had boost by gear over the MS3 but I was mistakenly looking at the spec sheet for the MS2PNP. The MS3PNP seems to have everything I could possibly want except starting patterns and A/C comp/ control. Although maybe FM is touting that as a feature yet the geniuses at MS just stick it in standard and assume everyone going Standalond EMS is smart enough to know about those things. Still looking for more input.
Every ecu for the last decade has had that. Those things being touted as the "next best thing" are a standard feature on every other ecu that isn't a million years old.

I'm sure the FM221 is fine at this point, i'd hope most of the dozens of bugs have been worked out in the last year, but if you're tuning it yourself, it offers absolutely no advantages over Megasquirt, unless you need something that goes in a stock ECU case for racing rules. Which you don't, since you're talking about adding a turbo.
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Old 07-09-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Every ecu for the last decade has had that. Those things being touted as the "next best thing" are a standard feature on every other ecu that isn't a million years old.

I'm sure the FM221 is fine at this point, i'd hope most of the dozens of bugs have been worked out in the last year, but if you're tuning it yourself, it offers absolutely no advantages over Megasquirt, unless you need something that goes in a stock ECU case for racing rules. Which you don't, since you're talking about adding a turbo.
Wow. Then guaranteed MS3PNP has it. Also I didn't know the FM221 had that many bugs. I know from reading the "RIP Hydra" thread I linked the ME221 was a **** show over here in the states but seemed well received in the UK, but I thought FM would have done their own preliminary tweaking to get it as production ready as possible.

So MS is the way to go.

The real question is do I go MSLabs MS3 Basic or MSPNPpro (MS3PNP)?

Last edited by Brap-Brap; 07-09-2017 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Because new Info
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:00 AM
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I've made my decision, I PM'ed Rev about his MSLabs units and they're the same except the MSLabs has the better USB port and an external SD slot which will make my life easier. And the MSLabs is $150 cheaper. So the MSLabs MS3 basic is the way to go.

Thanks guys. I actually posted this same question up on all the forums and y'all are actually the only people to give me answers about MS VS FM and all the MS options.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:26 AM
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MSPNP-Pro comes with free phone support from DIYAutoTune and a free copy of TunerStudio a $70 value or something like that.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:49 AM
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I never got the free copy of TS when I bought mine about a year ago.
That said, I'd probably pick the DIY MSPNP-PRO because apparently now you can call them if you have any questions/issues, but either one should work fine and be hands and feet above the piece of crap ME221 or FM221.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I never got the free copy of TS when I bought mine about a year ago.
That said, I'd probably pick the DIY MSPNP-PRO because apparently now you can call them if you have any questions/issues, but either one should work fine and be hands and feet above the piece of crap ME221 or FM221.
There is a link on some of the paper work that you have to goto and put in your serial number. Then you get a key for TS. It is not the easiest thing to find, but it is there. I had to ask DIY about it for the first PRO that I sold.

It is the phone support from DIY which is why I am selling the PRO's. It is just an added benefit knowing that if you are having a problem that you can give DIY a call, and there is like a 90% chance that Matt Cramer will pick up and help you out.

Also DIY now has the 96/97 models finished and listed on their site. I am pretty sure they got tired or me calling in and bugging them about it.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
There is a link on some of the paper work that you have to goto and put in your serial number. Then you get a key for TS. It is not the easiest thing to find, but it is there. I had to ask DIY about it for the first PRO that I sold.

It is the phone support from DIY which is why I am selling the PRO's. It is just an added benefit knowing that if you are having a problem that you can give DIY a call, and there is like a 90% chance that Matt Cramer will pick up and help you out.

Also DIY now has the 96/97 models finished and listed on their site. I am pretty sure they got tired or me calling in and bugging them about it.
Thanks for that lol. I was looking at the list of MS options thread on here and saw MS3PNPpro was listed only for the NB but that was back in 09' I think... So I thought I'd take a look on the DIYAutoTune site and I saw they had the MS3PNPpro for the 96-97'.

Also I just called in a favor from a good friend... He can get me a MS3PNPpro with licensed TS, EBC, AEM analog UEGO WBo2 and GM IAT for only $1000... Yea sorry Rev but no offense I'm saving like $250 here lol.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:05 PM
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No problem, make sure it's not used or anything though, because with all the things in there, he is selling below wholesale.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:08 PM
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Yeah, pass on a used Megasquirt. From any source.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:20 PM
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Don't want to get cucked
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:20 PM
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It's not used, what had happened was he wanted to enter into Formula Drift Pro-am with his Turbo Miata and so in preparation he bought all that and right before he was about to install all of it and get it running he traded the Miata for a 240. So now he's selling it all to me. It's all brand new.
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:09 PM
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sounds like a killer deal if it's legit and the right one for your car
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:26 PM
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Well you will want to DOUBLE check that it's for a 96-97, like 18psi said.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:35 AM
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Yea he had a 97' and he literally bought it about a week ago.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:39 PM
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This would have been an awesome option 15 years ago when I was shopping around for an ECU. I honestly never thought anyone would get around to making an MS3PNP for the 96-97 cars.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:46 PM
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Curious how the ECU worked out for you. I'm back in the market for my '97.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Brap-Brap View Post
I know from reading the "RIP Hydra" thread I linked the ME221 was a **** show over here in the states but seemed well received in the UK, but I thought FM would have done their own preliminary tweaking to get it as production ready as possible.
There isn't any real support for megasquirt in the UK. The few distributors there are over here sell full ECU packages, no kits. Everyone I know whose running an MS (myself included) has imported it from DIYAutotune. But now the pound has taken a **** against the dollar post brexit, the MS option in the UK looks very expensive. Whereas the price of the ME221 being a domestic product has remained stable.

I've tuned both, I prefer the ME221 tuning software over Tunerstudio. The MS is by no means perfect is the hardware any better than an ME221? I don't know, but I don know if I were to buy another ECU I wouldn't go budget or DIY ever again.
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