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I purchased a Speedyefi for my 1.8 Turbo swap.
I decided to give it a try on my stock 1.6 with an AEM wideband. It did start up but not well with the base tune that came pre-installed. I had my tuner come by to lend a hand and he street tuned it for me. He spent a bit more time at the end tweaking the start-up. The next day it wouldn't start when cold. I reverted the start-up settings back to the base tune settings and got it running. I played around with these start up settings for a couple of days but could not get it to start up well when cold. It would run ok if I got it going. Even warm starts were not good.
The guys at speedy are great and offered some advice.
I threw in the towel as there is too many variables and the learning curve is a bit steep.
I decided I will wait until after the swap and get someone to tune it up then. The guys at Speedyefi do offer remote tuning so maybe that's the route I will go before getting it on the dyno.
Is this a common problem or it just needs proper tuning?
I wonder if someone would share their tune with me to look at? Or even just their startup settings?
Just a thought.
When you say it's hard to start, you need to be more specific.
Do you wait for the fuel pump prime to complete before cranking?
How long does it crank over before lighting off?
Do you need to add throttle input to get it to fire off?
Do you need to add throttle input to keep it running once started?
What is your warm idle speed?
What is your cold idle speed (if it will maintain without throttle input)
Is the idle valve control confirmed to be working?
What AFRs do you see on a warm idle?
What AFRs do you see when the engine is cold/warming up?
There are adjustable cranking enrichment, warmup enrichment, cranking coil dwell, and various idle air valve settings just to name a few. Screen shots of all of these settings would be helpful along with your spark and fuel tables.
If you can answer the above questions I can give you a ballpark idea of what you need to adjust.
Thanks for the response. I had the stock ECU back in and just wanted to mention it starts quickly and easily under both cold and hot conditions.
So I setup the speedyefi again so I could give you more information to see if you can help me out. This would be great !!
Do you wait for the fuel pump prime to complete before cranking? Yes, its set to 5 Sec. I would not normally do this on the stock ECU though.
How long does it crank over before lighting off? When cold I really have to work the throttle maybe 5-6 sec if I get lucky sometimes full throttle to clear it but not sure whats happening.
Do you need to add throttle input to get it to fire off? Yes..not sure of the routine when cold and it's difficult so just winging it but when warm needs just a bit of throttle and fires up pretty quickly.
Do you need to add throttle input to keep it running once started? When cold I had to work the throttle for maybe 10 sec then idles fine. When warm it's fine after started.
What is your warm idle speed? 1300 rpm it may be set a bit higher on the throttle body if this matters I don't know.
What is your cold idle speed (if it will maintain without throttle input) 1200rpm
Is the idle valve control confirmed to be working? I think it is ok? Everything seemed fine on stock ECU .
What AFRs do you see on a warm idle? 14.0
What AFRs do you see when the engine is cold/warming up? 11.7 for a few seconds then to 12.7
There are adjustable cranking enrichment, warmup enrichment, cranking coil dwell, and various idle air valve settings just to name a few. Screen shots of all of these settings would be helpful along with your spark and fuel tables.
I have played around with the cranking enrichment quite a bit to see what works best and seems better now at least when warm but still struggle when cold.
I ended up dropping the cranking enrichment by 40% from the base tune across all temps.
If you can answer the above questions I can give you a ballpark idea of what you need to adjust.
Here is some screenshots. Let me know if there is something else you would like to see. ASE Enrichment values are at 15 through all temps from the base tune. Duration is 15 from -4 to 50 Then 104=5 and 176=3
When, cold if I don't give throttle it will not start. Not sure if it's because there's too much fuel or not enough. I believe initially there was too much fuel and would backfire. Was told to drop the cranking enrichment. This helped a bit when warm but still difficult when cold.
I will check cranking idle valve settings when I get home if I can find them. 😯
My tuner had checked timing with a light and set in tunerstudio before tuning so I suspect that is ok.
I had the stock ecu back in and car starts fine both cold and warm.
I logged a few startups both cold and when warm.
Again when cold I am working the throttle randomly to get it to catch and sometimes full throttle to clear but not certain if it was necessary although there was some pops.
I tried lowering the enrichment even more at lower temps but then would not start.
When cold once it does start it would idle fine.
When warm it starts much easier and better with just a touch of throttle but it cranks over more than it normally would as compared to stock ecu.
Once idling if I was to give it just a small amount of throttle it would want to die.
But with a bit more throttle it would rev up fine.
I was hoping someone might have a look at the start-up logs to see if anything looks messed up.
Also included the current tune file.
Maybe I will have better luck with the next motor.
My tuner had checked timing with a light and set in tunerstudio before tuning so I suspect that is ok.
I had the stock ecu back in and car starts fine both cold and warm.
I logged a few startups both cold and when warm.
Again when cold I am working the throttle randomly to get it to catch and sometimes full throttle to clear but not certain if it was necessary although there was some pops.
I tried lowering the enrichment even more at lower temps but then would not start.
When cold once it does start it would idle fine.
When warm it starts much easier and better with just a touch of throttle but it cranks over more than it normally would as compared to stock ecu.
Once idling if I was to give it just a small amount of throttle it would want to die.
But with a bit more throttle it would rev up fine.
I was hoping someone might have a look at the start-up logs to see if anything looks messed up.
Also included the current tune file.
Maybe I will have better luck with the next motor.
If it's pretty cold out, then your wue needs fixed. I had the same issue. Just richen it up a ton till you get it to start
Yes, winter is coming and the temperatures here are starting to get colder. I don't drive the car in the winter months and have been just trying to sort out this start-up issue. Without knowing anything about tuning I had suspected too much fuel as I would get some backfires on cold starts. I have learned that a weak battery can cause issues with the sensors and cause these pops. So I had been lowering my cranking enrichment and it seemed to help on warm starts but not much when cold.
With all the cranking and testing I have been doing my battery is finished.
So I am going to pick up a new battery and raise the cranking enrichment way back up and try again.
I will also try raising the ASE and wue if it struggles after firing especially in the colder parts of the tables.
I feel like it's a guessing game for me with respect to how much to raise them but will try some different values to see what happens.
This is why I would have liked to view someone's tune file to get an idea what kind of value range should be used in these start-up settings. The base tune settings would not start the car well so I will revert back to the base tune start-up settings and go up from there. I had previously tried a 50% increase in enrichment on cranking with no success but maybe I needed to go even higher.
Hopefully I have some luck.
I will report back.
Yes, make sure your car is turning over quickly (and consistently) on the starter when testing/modifying your startup tune.
Connect it to another running vehicle with jump leads if your battery is weak.
I have my tune in front of me now.
Note that these values work well for me with my RX8 Yellow injectors, which are tuned to idle fatter at operating temperature then something more expensive.
I also haven't tested any temperatures below about 40F ambient. Car is parked in the winter.
Of course all the enrichment settings depend on your VE table.
Also just so you know, your AFR table is doing nothing in the fueling calcs as Incorporate AFR option is turned off.
Don't change this now unless you want to retune your entire VE table.
Like all tuning adventures, YMMV.
I have the following settings (per screen):
Injectors priming delay = 1sec Your time of 25.5s here is essentially disabling the injector priming
Cranking enrichment taper time = 3sec Your time of 0.5s is too short here, killing the extra fuel before the motor can light off properly.
This is great information, thanks for looking into this and sharing some settings.
I will definitely be sure the Tuner has the "Incorporate AFR option" for the next round of tuning. Not sure why this was not selected.
I had played around with injector priming delay before as I thought it was strange this was at max delay on the base tune.
As for cranking enrichment I had also played with that a bit too but to be honest I wasn't really sure what it did.
Again this time of 0.5sec was another base tune setting.
So I installed a new battery and tried some of these start-up settings to see what kind of results I would get.
The only thing I did not change was the priming pulse width.
I also needed to increase the cranking enrichment values at a few of the colder temperature regions of the graph by 50%
I did set my idle valve to open loop as well.
It does start much better now !!
I wouldn't say it is perfect but I don't need to add throttle and starts up after a few cranks when cold and pretty quickly when warm.
If I had to guess what made the biggest difference I think was increasing the IAC PWM Cranking Duty as well as the injector priming delay and cranking enrichment taper time.
With it running in open loop I had to lower the idle with the screw on the throttle body?
Also when it does start it revs up to 2000rpm for a few seconds before coming down.
I played around with the ASE with little effect, also tried lowering the IAC PWM duty but truly I am guessing here.
Also, it seems now if I blip the throttle ever so slightly when idling it wants to cut out. I don't think it was doing this before and not sure why the start-up settings had an effect on this.
Certainly more tuning to be done but I think I am in much better shape than I was previously.
My goal was to get this thing starting and running half decent so that when I swap to my 1.8 I would have a fighting chance of getting it running.
When testing out changes, I would suggest changing one thing at a time and then testing.
Then name each tune file appropriately.
Also, try to read and understand what each setting does in the ECU before playing with values in that section. This will build knowledge and be more effective then the guess & check method over the long term.
If there is anything else I can help with please let me know
My tuner had checked timing with a light and set in tunerstudio before tuning so I suspect that is ok.
I had the stock ecu back in and car starts fine both cold and warm.
I logged a few startups both cold and when warm.
Again when cold I am working the throttle randomly to get it to catch and sometimes full throttle to clear but not certain if it was necessary although there was some pops.
I tried lowering the enrichment even more at lower temps but then would not start.
When cold once it does start it would idle fine.
When warm it starts much easier and better with just a touch of throttle but it cranks over more than it normally would as compared to stock ecu.
Once idling if I was to give it just a small amount of throttle it would want to die.
But with a bit more throttle it would rev up fine.
I was hoping someone might have a look at the start-up logs to see if anything looks messed up.
Also included the current tune file.
Maybe I will have better luck with the next motor.
Off topic but does that heat shield make a difference for intake temps? Have you logged some driving with and without it?
I am unsure if this heat shield is effective. This heat shield was installed on the car when I bought it. This 1.6 has a header installed. It is something the previous owner made and wrapped in heat foil. It seems like it was a good idea but no I did not log any tests with or without.
I have pulled this engine and am moving forward with my 1.8 swap with the turbo and will have different heat issues to deal with. I decided to have my Turbo manifold, Turbo and downpipe ceramic coated to help with heat. I am likely f going to add a turbo blanket and need to wrap a few other things as well. The heat shield has been removed but maybe it will be used again when I get things reinstalled.
10-25-2022, 07:12 AM
Speedyefi NA6 Start-up
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