thought we needed another wideband thread
 

Because everything I've read indicates that every affordable wideband is the best ever and the biggest POS. Amazing

LC-1: great if you wire it properly and downgrade the firmware. A complete POS and requires calibration
MTX-L: 1000000000x better than LC1...why? A POS and requires calibration
UEGO: Just works and no calibration. But it's slow and inaccurate. Also a POS.
ZT-2: slow and inaccurate but super awesome. Expensive.
ZT-3: new, nobody uses it. maybe better than ZT-2.


I really like the idea of an LC-1 w/ DB gauge and then upgrade to a VEI dual display down the line to combine boost and AFR into one. But apparently the LC-1 is junk and people are upgrading to MTX-L. I'd like to consolidate gauges but not if it means subpar sensors.

Still on the stock ECU now but will be upgrading to a Reverant built MS2 soon. Figured I'd get this installed now and have one less thing to deal with when the MS shows up. That and I can see just how badly Mazda tuned the MSM.

So why shouldn't I get the LC-1?

Mtx-l = lc-1 for the people that are convinced the UEGO is actually better.

Day One: Wire up LC-1.

Drive Hard
Tune
Turbo
Tune
Drive Harder
Tune
Upgrade
Tune
Upgrade some more
Tune
Drive 50K turbocharged miles, harder than ever
Tune
Smile


Present Day (3yrs later): Not a single problem, at all, ever, with an LC-1 on any of my setups, or those I've helped tune (a handful).

I used to have trouble getting in and out of my house...then I found that I had installed my doorknob wrong.

For your sake I hope it was a fancy electronically controlled doorknob.

So I'm gonna order up an LC-1 unless I hear a good reason not to.

the MTX-L is newer and it a much better gauge than the DB. what's the price difference?

Couple $ maybe, they're close enough that price isn't a consideration. But I plan on replacing the DB guage & my existing boost gauge with one of these in a couple months
http://www.veisystems.com/d1-bopwba-m.html

Can I wire the LC-1 to both the VEI gauge and MS2? The VEI needs 0-5v output. If I can't do that then I'll just get a MTX or maybe UEGO.

Yes. Get the lc-1 then.

midpack get a 14point7 SLC
http://14point7.com/SLC-Pure-Plus-2.php
http://14point7.com/SLC-DIY-2.php
mutiple gauge inputs as well

The only innovate i want is the LM-2

expensive and cant output two 0-5v outputs.

you can affords PLX?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328565114
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328565114

If the DIY was $50 less or included a warranty I'd consider it. Having a bright green display in a sea of orange would look retarded.

What gauges are those? Can't seem to find them on their site.

a pair of DM-100 display units - non-OBD II type. Looks like they got rid of the non-OBDII type in their product line, and just started selling the OBDII at near the non-OBDII price... you'll have to do a search for the DM-100 units, the sensors are sold seperately

The MTX-L is better than the LC-1 in that the gauge is showing the actual AFR measured, where as with the LC-1 (and the DB red/blue gauges), the AFR shown swings wildly due to the nature of the analog signal being measured, also it offset by ~0.3.

I would suggest the MTX-L.

The AEM tends to overfilter (low pass) the analog output, so does the Zeitronix (which is also slow to respond on the display AND inaccurate).

Ordered the VEI boost/AFR gauge and sender last night. Found a couple gaugeless LC-1s for a decent price and I'll order one once the VEI stuff ships.

Is the MS smart enough to ignore the wild swings or will it see the same fluctuating AFR that my gauge displays?

The PLX stuff looks awesome and had myself convinced to pick up a wideband + DM5 combo for a little more than LC1 or MTX but the lack of configurable outputs was a problem with the VEI gauges. Not sure basing the wideband decision on VEI is the greatest of ideas but oh well. If it works out then I'll have boost, AFR, oil temp and pressure split between 2 gauges for cheaper than anything else I've seen.

It has a configurable filter on the input signal, called a lag factor. I set this to a sensible value on every MS I build and program.

And that is why you are building it and not me. Well that and a whole bunch of other reasons including my soldering skills which would completely destroy half the components either from heat or electrons going where they should not.

MTX-L.

I have it, it works great. just do the first calibration right and set it and forget it, or follow the innovate calibration regiment if it makes you sleep better at night.

Unlike hustler I have no problems sleeping. How many street and track miles do you have since the initial install?

I've had an MTX-L in a box for like 6 months now. too lazy to install over my LC1.

I'll take it.

This thread is full of stupid and I hate it.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...B_Shootout.pdf

Cliffnotes:
LC-1 is fast and accurate
AEM is slow and accurate
Everything else is ----

haha, he sure does have trouble sleeping. I am at about 2k miles on the street, and zero on track. Ask me after this weekend and I will tell you about some track mileage though.

Seriously, it was stupid easy to install and following directions that used words no larger than 5 letters (other than innovate), can't be that difficult. I do electrical ---- in my spare time, so maybe not the best guinea pig here.

Very simple:
Crimp two ground wires together (unless you want dimming function).
attach ground
attach switched 12v.
turn key on without the sensor connected.
give it a minute to go into calibration.
turn off
attach sensor
turn on
leave it on till "htr" appears
turn off
wait till the sensor is cool
install into downpipe
drive.

Thats it. if you get something faulty out of the box, thats another story. The LC1 didn't look that bad either, I think the instructions are "complicated" because the gauge and sensor are treated as seperate units so people get confuzed.

Thanks alot. This thread makes me feel like I need to replace my AEM linear gauge/sensor. :(

I've got an LC-1 for sale.

the newer ones only even have 1 ground wire now...

thats true, but if you are not using the dimming function (white wire I think), it said to put it to ground.

wish I had seen this earlier

but that's only in regards to the gauge iirc, but yeah. that should go to the headlight switch thing (12v) cause you want dimming.

I have one and the only real complaint I have is that it took like a month to apparently build and ship from Canada :jerkit:

Other than that it's $140 for the controller that works as a gauge and like $40 for the o2 sensor itself - same price as everything else, basically.

Now, what do you need two 0-5v outputs for?

one to the gauge one to the ECU.


I don't want dimming so I put it to ground. Pretty sure I mentioned that in my original post:
Crimp two ground wires together (unless you want dimming function).

the controller is a gauge. but ok, that's a valid point I guess.

wait I get it, my wording sucks:

Crimp two wires and tie them to ground (unless you want dimming).

It is not this gauge
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1328744494

It is also green and doesn't match anything in a MSM. Where did you mount it / got any pics?

What piece of ----, I'd never buy that brand again!

I had a ton of touble with my lc1, then I took an etire afternoon of reading and learning what the hell I was doing, problem solved.

I recommend either the PLX DM-100 which I have in my Miata (fooger's gauge)

or

http://www.plxdevices.com/wideband.php

PLX DM-6

Both have rolling AFR graph. Useful for seeing what your AFRs were during a pull without staring at the gauge the whole time. Also has standard linear 0-5v output.

The "WB Shootout" called the PLX the worst tested.

Link please.

womp

The AEM is accurate-ish at the display, but the one I have used I found to be off by about 0.5 at the 0-5v analog output, using a narrowband sensor as a reference.

No problems with the LC-1, here.

I only have experience with the AEM and LC-1.

I love my LC-1, Ive used it on multiple cars with multiplt sensors and it feels very consistent, although Ive never done any objective benchmarking.
Ive tried tuning by an AEM and found it very frustrating due to its update speed, but thats all I can say about it for sure.

I too judge the accuracy of my sensors by how they feel. ;)

LC-1 showed up last week, VEI today. Installed the wideband but all the wires are sitting in the footwell, need to pick up some wire before the fun starts. What gauge wires do I need and is radio shack an OK source?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n...213_165136.jpg

I used wires from my garbage vacuum cleaner :fawk:

I routed the wires directly from the battery to the center console and use a relay that turns the gauge on when the key is on acc. Later i added a button that allows me to turn it off manually and turn it on manually which is very useful when trying to get an idea whats up during cranking or if the gauge glitched and needed a restart (turn off turn on).

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329190259

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329190259

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329190259

Had a LC-1, dumped it for a UEGO after getting pissed at it constantly going into an error condition after lean spikes. Tried to downgrade firmware and it ---- itself after running for about an hour. Causing me to waste a day that I used to tow the car out to somewhere I could tune it. To lazy to recover it with a JTAG.

UEGO was completely plug and play and analog output is within .1 of the displayed output. It does refresh noticeably slower than the LC-1 though.

I've been running my LC1 for over a year now, i've trashed 1 sensor due to running pig rich but other than that, i havent had a single problem. Could it be my direct connection to the battery while many others are sharing 12 volt sources between the radio and the lights and whatever else?

LC-1 + VEI = WIN
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z...216_210255.jpg

Gauge pillar doesn't look as bad in person, color is slightly off but nothing like what the flash makes it out to be.

Please tell us on a scale of 1 to 10, how easy was it to install? lol

If you consider crimping and soldering to be hard, I guess 10. It worked the first time and the gauge matches LogWorks...so I give it a 2.