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TSE built motor + turbo finally hits the dyno

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TSE built motor + turbo finally hits the dyno

 
Old 06-08-2019, 08:33 AM
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Default TSE built motor + turbo finally hits the dyno

Well it's been a long time coming. Took my time to try and do the build right and also being a newb first timer i had a lot of learning to do. Car ended up 295hp/290tq after trying to dial things back a little on 93. Had an odd issue from ~4.7-5.5k where the car would boost an extra 1-2psi. Seems to be the wastegate sticking open?

Other than the gate issue car ran flawless. h/t to Andrew for the build. Timing was left extremely conservative i believe peak boost on this run was 18psi. Tuner was working remote and i told him i wanted to be conservative on timing since it will be beat on track. Feedback on timing?






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Old 06-08-2019, 08:46 AM
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Solid numbers.

Timing looks real conservative.
I think 100kpa row is too retarded.
And everything under 100kpa doesn look right to me.

Post the build specs.

Looks like you have boost oscillation between 4200-5500rpm.
How are you controlling boost?

200tq at 3000 rpm is amazing. An efr usually hits 200tq at 3200-3400 from all the builds I've seen.
Mine hits 200 at 3300rpm.
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:52 AM
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Timing table looks like a basemap. I bet there's much gains to be made everywhere. Otherwise nice top end numbers.
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:00 AM
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Nice top end! What do your injectors and fuel map look like? I am running a similar build with less impressive numbers.
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:08 AM
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Nothing too special with the build really all just ideas i've taken from M/T pretty much. Built motor by andrew, EF6258, MS3, Skunk2 intake mani and throttle body, ID725's, turbosmart dual port actuator and mac control valve from TSE, Precision 350hp intercooler from TSE, Setrab oil cooler, D585 coils, custom 3" exhaust (Origin Fabrication), etc.. Head is stock. Kmiata PPF delete, diff braces.. MSM 6-speed trans, 4.3 Torsen rear (uhhhhh lol).





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Old 06-08-2019, 09:10 AM
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What compression ratio pistons?
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
Solid numbers.

Timing looks real conservative.
I think 100kpa row is too retarded.
And everything under 100kpa doesn look right to me.

Post the build specs.

Looks like you have boost oscillation between 4200-5500rpm.
How are you controlling boost?

200tq at 3000 rpm is amazing. An efr usually hits 200tq at 3200-3400 from all the builds I've seen.
Mine hits 200 at 3300rpm.
What would you use for ~100kpa? Car seemed to run great but timing was indeed meant to be on the conservative side but hopefully not excessively so. We were going off wastegate actually - that spike seems to be the actuator rod binding? Build specs posted above lmk if i missed something
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
What compression ratio pistons?
Paging Savington. For some reason i cannot find my original build order - Andrew will know.
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:30 AM
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You are hitting 18psi on wastegate only? With no electric boost control?
That is one manly Watergate spring you got there!

You probably have 8.6cr pistons if you told Andrew to build a motor for 93 gasoline and not e85.

On my 8.8cr stock 1994 pistons and untouched vvt head I run this timing map.
It's not a conservative map, but look mostly at the 100kpa and under non boosted section and compare to yours.

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Old 06-08-2019, 09:56 AM
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borka, for a naturally aspirated engine, your table is actually fairly aggressive. I usually tune a little more retarded in boost applications, since it does fly through the 100kpa row when transitioning to boost, albeit extremely quickly. In the 100kpa row, or 99 in your case, I run sub 30, probably around 26. So OP, you are a little retarded in that region, but not by much, and it probably won't make any difference to change it. Also Borka, I'm not sure if you were setting timing during that screen shot or what, but I'd get rid of that 10 degrees in the idle cells. It's not bad for idle, but transitioning out and jumping to around 20 degrees can't be too smooth. Plus if you used idle advance to smooth your idle, you'll be in the 0-10 degree range.

OP, your boost oscillation probably comes from the timing jumping 4 degrees right at 4700rpm, and the turbo can finally breath. I'd take everything below 4700 and make it at least 10 degrees and see if that helps.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:05 AM
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Very clean build! I like a lot of the details, like the exhaust routing, and whole look of the car, have a cat!
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by borka View Post
You are hitting 18psi on wastegate only? With no electric boost control?
That is one manly Watergate spring you got there!

You probably have 8.6cr pistons if you told Andrew to build a motor for 93 gasoline and not e85.

On my 8.8cr stock 1994 pistons and untouched vvt head I run this timing map.
It's not a conservative map, but look mostly at the 100kpa and under non boosted section and compare to yours.
Yea i'm not sure why i'm hitting 18psi on wastegate. The TS-0620-1143 should have a 14psi spring in it.. I've probably done something wrong here - perhaps related to pre-load or other??? Perhaps Andrew could tell me what i screwed up.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
borka, for a naturally aspirated engine, your table is actually fairly aggressive. I usually tune a little more retarded in boost applications, since it does fly through the 100kpa row when transitioning to boost, albeit extremely quickly. In the 100kpa row, or 99 in your case, I run sub 30, probably around 26. So OP, you are a little retarded in that region, but not by much, and it probably won't make any difference to change it. Also Borka, I'm not sure if you were setting timing during that screen shot or what, but I'd get rid of that 10 degrees in the idle cells. It's not bad for idle, but transitioning out and jumping to around 20 degrees can't be too smooth. Plus if you used idle advance to smooth your idle, you'll be in the 0-10 degree range.

OP, your boost oscillation probably comes from the timing jumping 4 degrees right at 4700rpm, and the turbo can finally breath. I'd take everything below 4700 and make it at least 10 degrees and see if that helps.
Sorry i'm an idiot. Where are you seeing a 4 degree change? Tuner tried 4-5 different things and the spike stuck at the exact same spot where boost would spike ~2 psi.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:14 AM
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18psi is 220, if you look at that row, you go from 6.3 to 10.3 in a relatively short period, 4300-5400rpm.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:39 PM
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Note that it's possible to be TOO conservative with timing, especially on track. Go too low and your EGTs will skyrocket and can damage exhaust valves, etc. Not as quick or dramatic as detonation, but still something to be avoided.

Did the tuner tell you how many degrees off MBT it is? My map is about 6 degrees more advanced than yours in most of the boosted cells, but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison (built 99 motor, P&P head, GTX2863R, 9:1 pistons, 100 octane). I tuned my car to 2 degrees off MBT for safety.

Nice looking build!

--Ian
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:53 PM
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Looks fun, besides the oscillation the torque looks pretty flat from early on. Is that a custom built heatshield? It looks awesome and I want one.
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
Looks fun, besides the oscillation the torque looks pretty flat from early on. Is that a custom built heatshield? It looks awesome and I want one.
Yes - custom built heatshield by my friend at Origin Fabrication.
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Note that it's possible to be TOO conservative with timing, especially on track. Go too low and your EGTs will skyrocket and can damage exhaust valves, etc. Not as quick or dramatic as detonation, but still something to be avoided.

Did the tuner tell you how many degrees off MBT it is? My map is about 6 degrees more advanced than yours in most of the boosted cells, but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison (built 99 motor, P&P head, GTX2863R, 9:1 pistons, 100 octane). I tuned my car to 2 degrees off MBT for safety.

Nice looking build!

--Ian
Yea that was my concern as well. He did not tell me how many degrees off MBT it is - actually this is the first time i've heard of MBT i need to do some more reading on it.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:33 PM
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I run a similar map to borka in boost but with an extra 5-7 degrees in the 250kpa row but Im running 8.6 compression on 94oct with water/meth injection. I still have room for more timing but Im waiting on a larger water nozzle and some dyno time.

Sick build, looks really well sorted out!
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:58 PM
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Imma go semi conservative on the boostness. I don’t want much more than 230-250 hp.
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