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Old 07-30-2009, 03:19 AM   #1
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Default 01 Build. Would you add?

Thanks for all your input in my other thread about differences in building 1.6 vs 1.8. Ultimately i decided that if i was going to build a motor, why not do it right and start off with a better platform.

Goals are still the same

300 rwhp +/-
Track first/street second


Now this is what i have so far (or coming )

01 motor with 22k miles ready for forged guts
M-Tuned rods
9:1 supertechs 84mm

And thats it.


Obviously im going to need
A rebuild kit
Coolant reroute
COPs?
Machinist
Lots of time learning

Please feel free to voice something i missed or a part that i have not seen.

Remember this isnt a car build just a engine. I dont wanna see, "what you gonna do with all that power, your gonna need brakes suspension neon lights bla bla bla." Your gonna get kicked in the nuts if you do.

Will i need?

bearings, main studs, head studs, oil scrapper, billet oil pump gear?

I will be tracking this motor and want it to last me many years
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:48 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbkcocker499 View Post
Thanks for all your input in my other thread about differences in building 1.6 vs 1.8. Ultimately i decided that if i was going to build a motor, why not do it right and start off with a better platform.

Goals are still the same

300 rwhp +/-
Track first/street second


Now this is what i have so far (or coming )

01 motor with 22k miles ready for forged guts
M-Tuned rods
9:1 supertechs 84mm

And thats it.
If you can, cancel your Supertech order and get the 8.7:1 pistons. Lowering the compresion will have a minimal impact on off-boost response, but it will lower EGTs, allow for more timing, and make more torque than a 9:1 motor will.


Quote:
Obviously im going to need
A rebuild kit
Coolant reroute
COPs?
Machinist
Lots of time learning
I would add oil pump gears to that list, but everything else looks good. OEM head gasket is fine, and COPs are certainly a good idea.

Quote:
bearings, main studs, head studs, oil scrapper, billet oil pump gear?

I will be tracking this motor and want it to last me many years
I went with ACL Race bearings. All my clearances ended up about .001" above the recommended range, but still a couple thou under the maximum. I think I read somewhere they are .001 undersized, so that makes sense. You can do OEM bearings, or ACLs, or do your own research, or talk to your machinist/builder. If someone else assembles the motor, they will probably have their own preference.

I re-used the stock main bolts - anything else is totally overkill for 300whp.

You are supposed to be able to use the stock head bolts again, but my HG leaked when I did that so take that as you will. I ended up with ARP studs and I have no regrets - there's no downside other than cost, and the motor is quite a bit easier to assemble (and they are reusable).

Oil scraper might not be a bad idea, I didn't do one and I don't lose sleep over it.

I mentioned oil pump gears earlier.

You can spend a lot of money on a motor, or you can spend very little - it all depends on how far down the "slippery slope" you go. I have $1700 into my shortblock:

-$200 machining
-$800 pistons/rods
-$150 oil pump gears
-$250 seals/gaskets/TB/WP/etc
-$90 bearings
-$110 ARP studs
-$100 in small **** like oil, filters, etc.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:46 AM   #3
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Just took a look at the supertech list and they dont make a 8.7 low comp pistons; just 8.6. I dont want to have a sluggish off boost car thats why i was thinking 9:1. Ill talk to adam when i call him and see if theres a happy median. Thanks sav
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbkcocker499 View Post
Just took a look at the supertech list and they dont make a 8.7 low comp pistons; just 8.6. I dont want to have a sluggish off boost car thats why i was thinking 9:1. Ill talk to adam when i call him and see if theres a happy median. Thanks sav
If it is track first/street second like your initial post indicated, I'd go 8.6:1. You really won't be concerned with off boost performance if it is a track *****.
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:54 AM   #5
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buy my .86 housing, newly surfaced manifold, and downpipe.
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbkcocker499 View Post
Just took a look at the supertech list and they dont make a 8.7 low comp pistons; just 8.6. I dont want to have a sluggish off boost car thats why i was thinking 9:1. Ill talk to adam when i call him and see if theres a happy median. Thanks sav
you should talk to johnwag who works in a supercharger shop about driving my car off boost, or Machismo. I have the 8.6 or whatever pistons and its nowhere near "sluggish." You can also up the displacement so you never know what your missing from the .4 compression points you're missing.

You can also look at my dyno that shows 252wtq at 4k rpm, which is a DD that reads 12% lower than a dynojet...I also fixed some exhaust restriction and it got faster. So basically thanks to the low comp, I'm hitting MBT in the max torque cells at 4k rpm, at 15psi and running safely at 22* advance. I've had it up to 26* with no detonation. That's a lot of headroom and pizza-mind.
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:01 AM   #7
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It's funny... I personally like 9.5:1 compression pistons on my 250-350hp Miata builds.
Anything above 350hp I use 8.8:1 normally. I always found the 9.5:1 to be a little better off boost and with spool-up than the 8.8:1 pistons.

I know when we build boosted Honda engines we use 9.5:1 or 10:1 with zero issues and we normally make 500hp+ on them. My last B18C Honda Engine was 10:1 and I was making over 600hp with it.

I do agree with the comment about track first (Go low Compression) or street (Do the higher).

Just my 2 cents....
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
It's funny... I personally like 9.5:1 compression pistons on my 250-350hp Miata builds.
Anything above 350hp I use 8.8:1 normally. I always found the 9.5:1 to be a little better off boost and with spool-up than the 8.8:1 pistons.

I know when we build boosted Honda engines we use 9.5:1 or 10:1 with zero issues and we normally make 500hp+ on them. My last B18C Honda Engine was 10:1 and I was making over 600hp with it.

I do agree with the comment about track first (Go low Compression) or street (Do the higher).

Just my 2 cents....
Honda comparisons don't work, there out there in another world of quality and engineering according to people who know lots more than me.
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Honda comparisons don't work, there out there in another world of quality and engineering according to people who know lots more than me.
They are.. However I made 498hp on my 9.5:1 Miata engine so it can be done!
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:50 AM   #10
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They are.. However I made 498hp on my 9.5:1 Miata engine so it can be done!
I made 499hp on a 9.6:1.
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
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I made 499hp on a 9.6:1.
HA HA.. If only you did The compression ratio argument can go on and on. With current ECU technology it is more of a personal preference now.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:15 PM   #12
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I do plan on tracking the car but also like street driving. Also i called Adam and supertech doesnt make the 8.6's anymore. And the Weisco's were out of stock with no set date of the new arrivals. Everyone in the group buy ordered the 9:1 so cant be too bad
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:20 PM   #13
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Supertech stopped making 8.7:1 84mm pistons? WTF?
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:24 PM   #14
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CR have a set of brand new Wiseco Pistons - 8.5:1 compression, 84mm with rings for sale for $415 shipped if you don't want to run 9:1. I think most of us were try to get 8:6:1 from Supertech which is no longer in production.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:25 PM   #15
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why 2001? I though 2001 is harder to run due to VVTI??
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:40 PM   #16
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If you think that at some point you woll remove the turbo, then i would go with 9.5:1. I however, would rather get rid of thecar than drive it without a turbo. I would have gone with the 8.6:1 had they been available. I bought the cr9's.
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:12 PM   #17
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whoa, no more low comp supertech? Looks like Savington and I can now embroider "limited edition" on everything.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
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whoa, no more low comp supertech? Looks like Savington and I can now embroider "limited edition" on everything.
<---also haz
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:46 PM   #19
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BELFAB RACING PRODUCTS

You called and confirmed they are out of stock?
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:59 PM   #20
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Make sure the machine shop checks your rods. My m-tuned rods were .0015" out of round on the big end.
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