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1.8 Engine (re)build--noob. Help Welcomed
Had a few miatas, none turboed.
Got a turbo kit got a cherry miata installed mkturbo kit sent a few rods through the oil pan within 3 miles (was breaking in new clutch so wasn't cranking on it. Autotune was running and afr/temps were spot on) So now I'm building another engine, and NOT tuning this one. I'm in southern PA if there are any shops relatively local or any ms3pro tuners around that are willing to tune/learn me how to do it please let me know!! This is mainly me laying out my ideas and keeping track of what I F-ck up. Parts list I just installed- -949 clutch (puck sprung) -Flowforce COP kit -Flowforce 640cc injectors -cooler NGK plugs gapped at .033 -MSPNPpro -mazdaspeed motor mounts and new diff mounts -5x bronze shifter rebuild kit -949/csf all aluminum rad (not crossflow) -949 coolant reroute -stage 8 turbo hardware PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CRITIQUE ME. Much rather have internet hate than the feeling of blowing up another engine. Goal is to build engine to handle 250-275 WHP reliable and never deal with it again. Not planning on tracking it but buy once cry once. and not worry if I do take to the track. I have the MKturbo full kit. Was debating on getting a legitimate Garrett turbo (mine is oil cooled, not oil and water so that's good from what i've read) but not sure of the size. When the car was running for 3 short miles, the spool would be pretty good around 3K (again wasn't beating on it) so that seems good for now? I'm going to get a newer long block and take apart/clean up/slight build/put in/hope to not blow up again. Parts are looking to be: Ebay rods with arp studs 3/8" ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/MANLEY-H-Be...YAAOSwridaA1T5 ) Supertech 8.6 CR Pistons ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/WISECO-K553...-/252163813208 ) Wiseco rings non race bearings?? ACL?? New oem oil pump Clean the oil passageways https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...removal-95289/ OEM gaskets and timing kit. All gaskets will be OEM. (right?) Will probably have the same shop take a look at the head. Is there anything to do in there while it's apart that's worth doing? I will probably do valve guide seals while it's off. Anything else? I know I'll need to wait for the shop to measure the crank and check for bearing size, but does this look like a good start? Thanks for the help Pic for your enjoyment... https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...976278a934.png |
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Out of curiosity I have to ask to see your time. If you weren't beating on it, I jus wonder what could have caused such destruction.
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I'll show you anything you want :)
When it happened, my uncle was riding with me and said "what was that" I said "a blown up engine" he said "why, you weren't even into it?" LMK what you'd like to see, and I'm tearing apart another block to build and don't want to go through this again |
You broke rods. The main 2 reasons when they break is too much power or severe detonation.
Since you said you were not pushing it, then that leaves detonation as the cause. Post your tune file for others to inspect. how many psi did you see on the boost gauge? |
Are you sure the base timing was set right?
Third reason rods fail is stretch from overrevving, often from a missed shift. Sometimes it is a delayed failure. |
8 Attachment(s)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...567ba4479d.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a1c82f1fc7.png https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...369d985628.png https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...cf77345672.png https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...04af11b314.png https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bcb4662429.png This should be attached. I'm not sure if it's *current* as I was running auto tune and the car blew while running it. I shut it off as soon as I heard the bang. @sixshooter I can't answer to what happened to it 141K before I owned it, but it was super clean and ran great. I also had a new clutch and needed to bed brakes in, so I was not hard on it at al, just wanted to really drive it around to break the clutch in first, then brakes while letting autotune do it's thing. Had sunoco 93 in it after running it to E, then rean the 93 to 1/4 tank then put the turbo on, so very confident it had 93 octane. I used the base DIY autotune map and was adapting. For the timing, I set to 10 degrees fixed and had to adjust MS to 2.1 to get it dead nuts, then reverted back to Use Table. As for boost, My gauge was jumping around and I didn't feel confident in it. But the wastegate actuator was to have an 8PSI spring. It's a full MKturbo kit and i had the vacuum line to the top port of the wastegate actuator. Already ordered a MAC valve EBC for the rebuild. Also will be welding some vacuum bungs into the intercooler piping below the throttle body so I'm sure it's accurate going forward. |
That'll do it. Your VE table isn't scaled for boost.
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Originally Posted by SpartanSV
(Post 1565463)
That'll do it. Your VE table isn't scaled for boost.
So the Baro upper limit should be around 210 Kpa? Or is it the fuel load? I will have this engine tuned by someone...not making that mistake again. so close..... |
"I used the (wrong) base DIY autotune map" Was that map preloaded and were they aware you were turbocharging the car or did you load it? If you loaded that map was it was mislabeled as a turbo base map? Look at it this way, you get to learn how to rebuild an engine and wont' be limited to ~250 RWHP/torque.
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I've seen a lot of conflicting info, but the last thing I've read is that "the base map was based on a stock MSM" so they are turboed running 8 ish psi. That should have put me at the wastegate spring level and didn't think I had to mess with other things.
That's probably my biggest "complaint" is that there is a lot of conflicting info. Like the Cranking Advance. Mine was set at like 15 or 18. There have been several people saying that's too much and will ruin the starter. Then saw a post from Matt saying that their number is fine..so I have no idea. When I was under boost, my AFR's were fat. Rolling on the throttle from 2K to 4500 I was reading low 12's, so that made me thing my AFR was fine. Coolant temp never got above 180 F. Having half the VE fuel deal makes sense, but also doesn't. If it was that lean, wouldn't it heat up? So thats where I'm really confused but am going to work with someone who's done this before. Well that's the plan. |
The MS will keep injecting fuel, but if it goes above the max fuel table row, it'll just use it's last known volume. Just as a reminder N/A cars are at 100kpa at WOT. So above 100kpa is "boost". Your fuel table ends at 100, your ignition table ends at 250kpa, or 22psi of boost. That being said, your ignition table is still kinda crap. I'd expect around 28 degrees at 100kpa, you're at 33. Your next row is a little high for me, 7psi, but whatever, MS interpolates. I'd expect that to be 14-20 depending on how conservative you want to be. You're at 29.5. You've got a very aggressive timing map. Like forged engine and race fuel map. Your fuel map should be very smooth too, it's not. Huge peaks and valleys that aren't helping anything. Remember that's supposed to be your engine's efficiency. More efficient=more fuel. The difference between 55 and 60kpa is basically nothing. Yet at 3700 for example, you're saying your engine needs 25% less fuel.
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Gents,
thanks for much for the help. I’ve been trying to read and understand but still in that crawling phase. I appreciate you guys that can do this in your sleep weighing in on my clusterfuc* |
Where do people get these garbage "Base Maps" ????
If DIYAUTOTUNE provides these, then shame on them. I would expect a base map to at least have properly scaled tables, and a sane conservative timing table. for example, when i bought a MS2e from MSLabs, the base map Rev gave me all the tables were scaled properly, the timing table worked AS IS, and it got the car started and running. Then autotune took care of most of the rest. |
@borka that was my understanding. “This will be close to what you need and auto tune will make it nice and safe. Don’t mess with ignition unless you know what you’re doing. “
I am not saying I did everything 100% but expected a few of the important variable to be “pre adjusted” and was quite bummed when she blew. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bb1e6daf0.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...be32e73fe.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b0a6c59bc.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f72668a06.jpeg |
That's incredible. That's a naturally aspirated tune.
A proper tune will have scaling well above 100kpa for IGN and VE tables. Often it will go to 200 or 250kpa. Someone owes you an explanation and an apology. |
Wiseco rings --- check Clean the oil passageways https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...removal-95289/ --- Engine builder says he's familiar with that. OEM gaskets and timing kit. All gaskets will be OEM. (right?) --- Ordered |
You don't need shims for the oil pump. They don't increase the operating volume or pressure for most. It increases stress on the pump when the engine is cold, mostly.
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Engine builder said to go with oem sizes. That should be good news on the life of the new engine. All parts ordered + timing belt kit and water pump through Track Day Parts. Check him out for some damn good prices.
https://m.facebook.com/TRACKDAYPARTS.US/ |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1565780)
You don't need shims for the oil pump. They don't increase the operating volume or pressure for most. It increases stress on the pump when the engine is cold, mostly.
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