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Old 12-26-2013, 10:36 PM   #1
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Default 11:1 wiseco and boost anyone ever try?

11:1 Wiseco forged normally aspirated pistons in a 1.6l... anyone ever give this a shot?
Out here in the indy drag scene ppl have been mix matching na tuning and turbo tuning.I think the goal is turbo power and na response. But, this brand of thinking is not just here its all over N.H.R.A., formula one, rally, indy car... this black art is everywhere there is even factory stuff ever heard of nissan skyline gtr's any one but for the most part i don't see this all that much in are world i know it probably for good reason too.I've been looking into this:
1. itb+turbo lot of work and tuning but you all have done it already ^_^ i think this was originally a acceleration/ response thing and the ability to rock bigger cams than normal with out to much of the negative side-effects.
2. secondary injectors in the turbo itb pendulum for power (formula one thing need a fab shop to even try)
3.hi compression and boost heard about it from a pro dragger he rocked 15:1 & hi boost (21psi) running low 9's in a (eg) civc then s2k rock factory forged 11:1's stock and ppl just boost them to 500whp if they can do it we can to even if we don't get the same power. this may make a better power curve or something ... better response and acceleration who knows. Tho hi er comp. probably mean less overall boost (there has to be a positive side to it)
the rest of the tech I'm looking into is a secret... not sharing lol...
Yes.. I Know diff. applications, diff. motor and what not plz know that's not the point. point is just trying new [email protected]# to see what work ^_^
Question:
1.Have anyone try f.m's 11:1 Wiseco forged normally aspirated pistons in a 1.6l ,1.8l,20l with boost to any success or failure?

2.If you had any success with this... Do you mind sharing your success story and advice?

There was more Questions about this but its getting late so ill add it later if i remember
Disclaimer:
if my dyslexia is kicking in plz know i try to proof read sorry... I'm just really sleepy

Last edited by the new legend; 12-26-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:38 PM   #2
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yes
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:27 AM   #3
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Well you have at least 2 properly used capital letters in this mumbo jumbo. Probably all u got going for you though.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:03 AM   #4
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It is very simple really, all of the high compression and high boost applications you see have a few things in common.

They are all using exotic and expensive det resistant fuels. They generally have very aggressive cam profiles that tend to bleed off compression. They cost a lot more to build and maintain, and I mean a lot more. Lastly, many classes of motorsport forbids it.

Most of us live in the real world where we need motors to live for a reasonable amount of time, cost a reasonable amount of money, and perform well in the parameters they are used in.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:29 AM   #5
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You have some good thoughts and questions here but your post is so difficult to read. Please make an effort to punctuate and improve your grammar.

I can't answer either question but I will say high compression + boost on a street car only makes sense to me on e85. If it's readily available, I don't see any reason not run it 11:1 with 15 psi or so of boost. People (not necessarily miata owners) do it all the time. But 91 or 93 octane would definitely not cut it. Way too much risk and/or too many tradeoffs.

But still... 500whp? That's not going to happen without DEEP pockets. You should definitely do an LS swap if that's your goal.
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Old 12-27-2013, 05:25 AM   #6
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Our motors make more power and more torque across a wider powerband when you drop the compression and increase the timing and boost. Going the other direction by adding compression and reducing timing and boost is an awesome way to end up with a really crappy low-boost setup.

tl;dr: it's not a Honda motor, don't set it up like one
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:48 AM   #7
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When Honda built the Miata engine, they used the exact same technology as they used in the civic engines. The end result is that you have the same potential for power increase as you would in a civic with the same sized motor. In all reality, everyone knows that the Honda Miata is just a Honda Civic with right wheel drive - think of the possibilities!!! When you're not spinning tires in 4th gear at 500fwhp "because race civic", you have the real potential for some SERIOUS acceleration!!!

We all know that it's definitely possible to run 21psi on a miata engine at 15:1 compression, but you'll find the good folks at miataturbo.net generally don't like what they consider "overkill". Most of us rarely ever spin the engine past about 3500 rpms because we don't want to put too much strain on the drivetrain, so a turbo running 21psi (even at a mild 15:1 compression ratio) we just can't react fast enough to get out of the gas before we hit 3500 rpm. We really do strive to keep the Miata drivetrain as stock as possible in order to preserve the spirit of the car.

OTOH: Some of us good fellows here at Miataturbo.net are more interested in hardparking appearance mods that only make us *look* like we are all super awesome drifters. Since we don't want to improve the handling of the Miatas too much, we only make safety and structural improvements that make us look fast, such as hardcore roll bars, and super low suspension setups to give us the appearance of being able to handle more cornering acceleration without body roll. Just try not to improve the charachteristics of the body roll to fit the super low suspension drop - it's better to take out the inside of the fender with the wheels than to make actual changes to the performance charachteristics of the car.

In summary, the answer is a resounding "YES!" You can run 21psi at 15:1 compression ratio on the Honda Miata. Additionally, you will find that you can add WAY MORE performance improvement to the Miata than most of us here on the forum are even willing to talk about or consider. Just make sure that you stick to the broader Honda forums for the best performance info on the Miata; the information you get here will be nothing more than a disappointment. Let us know how your project turns out!!!
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:08 AM   #8
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I don't believe all this Honda ****. If that were true, why didn't we get VTEK until 2001?
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I don't believe all this Honda ****. If that were true, why didn't we get VTEK until 2001?
Honda just keeping the man down. The honda B series and the mazda B series directly replace each other. The B head'll drop right on our cars as long as you match the displacement.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Honda just keeping the man down. The honda B series and the mazda B series directly replace each other. The B head'll drop right on our cars as long as you match the displacement.
1.6 or 1.8 B head? Do you need to swap the cams? Why would anyone not do this conversion?
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
In all reality, everyone knows that the Honda Miata is just a Honda Civic with right wheel drive
This just gave me both wet dreams and nightmares. Could you imagine? lol. On one hand it could have been awesome, on the other hand could you imagine how expensive miatas would be ? And how popular. Yuck.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:51 AM   #12
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i need sum itb pendulums!
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:54 AM   #13
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when a sleepy dyslexic starts rapid firing new threads you know things are gonna go downhill from there
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Our motors make more power and more torque across a wider powerband when you drop the compression and increase the timing and boost. Going the other direction by adding compression and reducing timing and boost is an awesome way to end up with a really crappy low-boost setup.
Would you say the same applies to engines running E85? Last we talked about it you were thinking of building a higher compression engine since you switched to E85.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:37 PM   #15
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He's talking about pump gas. E85 is a completely different animal.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
He's talking about pump gas. E85 is a completely different animal.
I assume that's true, but I'd be interested to hear him reply... last time I talked to him about that particular subject was 2-3 years ago, he may have more insight into it now.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennkafer View Post
Would you say the same applies to engines running E85? Last we talked about it you were thinking of building a higher compression engine since you switched to E85.
Same theory, more compression. The goal with either fuel is to hit MBT just before you hit the detonation threshold. If you detonate too early, you have too much compression, you have to pull timing, and power suffers. On gas, the ideal compression number is somewhere in the 8.5-8.6 range for most setups. I don't think we really know where it is for E85 yet.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:45 PM   #18
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E85 is about 4 degrees timing advance vs o93.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
E85 is about 4 degrees timing advance vs o93.
For MBT on a BP, it's somewhere around there, but that doesn't have anything to do with how much extra compression you can add by going from premium to E85 without sacrificing any timing advance. That extra advance just accounts for flame front speed.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:04 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Same theory, more compression. The goal with either fuel is to hit MBT just before you hit the detonation threshold. If you detonate too early, you have too much compression, you have to pull timing, and power suffers.
In other words MBT is achieved at a certain spark angle. If your fuel or hardware causes detonation prior to that point you are giving away more power because of the compromised timing than what you are gaining by extra boost or compression.

The OP should heed the advise of those on this forum who have paved the way before him. Low compression with boost on pump fuel is the winning combo.

With all that being said I love high compression low boost setups. They may not be the path to ultimate HP but they have a personality that can't be beat. On my street 911 with 11.2CR and 7psi of boost I gotta run 100 oct to achieve MBT. The track Miata runs 11:1CR with 10-11psi (rotrex) on E85.
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