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Old 10-28-2010, 04:24 AM   #1
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Default 11.5:1 e85 and Kraftwerks?

This is a light night (for me) question, I'm going to throw out.

I am sending Savington my car, with a Built 01 short block, stock 01 head, an AEM and a bunch of other go fast stuff. Our plan is to remove the 11.5:1 supertechs out of the block and throw in some 9:1 supertechs in preperation for a kraftwerks sc down the road. The car will be a street/track car.

The only problem is I keep getting a bonner everytime I think of the 85.5 bore with the 11.5:1 AND a sc. Emilio says 10:1 is probably the highest you should go with the kraftwerks, but I never brought up e85 when we spoke.

So, I know I could go e85 and probably have a stupid fast set up, but e85 is not very prevalent in my area. Keeping the car somewhat streetable is kinda important to me. I say somewhat because it will have race seats, ac, ps, and cc have been removed. Could I put a Flex fuel sensor in the tank, and if it reads e85 it has my AEM give me the bad *** map. If it senses street gas, I get the super restrictive tune. The car will have TSE radiator, Rx-7 oil cooler, rear of head re-route

I'm going to run this by Andrew, but I wanted to get some other ideas.

Is this bat **** crazy? Am I oversimplifying this?
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:26 AM   #2
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11.5:1 seems a little steep to me. 10:1 wouldn't be too bad and you could still have the twin map thing, assuming you can make the flex sensor work. But honestly my vote goes to sticking with nice safe 9:1 with normal 91 or 93 octane pump gas and being happy there for a while. If you want to go nuts and add more boost later or switch to e85 you can always do that. The last thing you want to do is try some crazy setup and destroy a freshly rebuilt bottom end.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:47 AM   #3
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Do you have a good oil pump and balancer. If you do, put a bigger camshaft in. That will help bleed down the compression especially if you toy with cam timing. Big cams come with it's own perilous risk however.

Don't be a *****. You know you want to. What is wrong with a little inovation and risk.

If it works, it will be seriously fast compared to the rest of the sheep.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:32 AM   #4
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11.5:1 with E85 and Boost is a perfect combo. That setup is exactly what I plan on doing to my 11.5:1 track car in a year or so. E85 loves high compression and boost. I have never seen them combined, but I See no real potential problems and only benefits from the high compression. The only thing that sucks is that yopu better make two maps or make sure you have enough E85.
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:03 PM   #5
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I also think its a good idea and you should do it.

The rotrex builds boost gradually and doesn't even reach peak boost til higher rpm. e85 is a wonderful fuel that will cool down as well as provide near race gas octane for safety.

there are TONS of RSX's, S2000's, and other 11.0-11.5:1 cars out there boosted anywhere between 8-12psi on pump gas with no problems. obviously the bp isn't the same animal but I still don't see why this can't be done.

High compression + e85 + a little boost will make for a very responsive and fairly powerful engine IMO.
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:47 PM   #6
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Yes, I agree you should go for it. I love when people do things outside the box, you should have awesome throttle response, also. But how are you going to get a flex fuel sensor to run with your AEM? I was told the AEM doesn't have input for that? I hope you're right...
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:25 PM   #7
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The AEM can only carry one tune at a time. If you want to run POG(plain ole gas) you need to upload the gas tune to the AEM at the time that you fill up. It is not that big a deal, that is how I have my setup.

As far as high compression and your SC goes, I think that you should be fine, just don't go to crazy with your boost pressure. I have a conversion project, it is an f20c engine (s2000) engine in a miata, I just finished adding the turbo to it. The f20 is 11:1 stock, with a safe tune and 12 psi, I have had no issues thus far.
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:30 PM   #8
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You don't need a flex fuel sensor do you? I have only done a little research on this but regardless of the fuel type it will still read lambda and report back to the gauge/ecu what it translates that to. Can't the LC1 do that out of the box?
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:34 PM   #9
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Another vote for going for it. If you can stand the potential hassle of keeping E85 in the car (you said it wasn't close by), then it's well worth it. We've built a number of higher compression 4g63's (up to 12:1) to run E85 and boost and it's a great match, but the fuel is on every corner out here so people don't worry about running out and having to run pumpgas. I ran dual maps on my Talon as a convenience even at stock compression (8.5:1), and it worked great if I couldn't get to an E85 station while on the road somewhere.
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:20 PM   #10
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You also have to understand how much those heads flow compared to a Miata, some cars can get away with things that some cars cannot.

The AEM can switch maps, but does not have the input capabilities to run a flex fuel sensor. While you can run a sensor stand alone with a gauge to tell you what percent of E85 you have, you will not be able to adjust the map unless you have a switch or laptop to upload other maps.

Either way I am for it, I want to do something similar in the future. Not quite as high of compression as you, but around 10:5.1. Keep us updated on your build!
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:00 PM   #11
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**** yes. If I had easy e85 access I would have done a hclb build. Your build will be super efficient and awesome.
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:25 PM   #12
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So here's your catch... can you run 11.5:1 and maintain your normal boost level and run normal pump gas safely? If not, then your forced to run around and hope to god you can find e85 all of the time. Maybe I'm just a little gun shy, but I still vote for the option that keeps an expensive built block nice and safe.
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:56 PM   #13
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I get the feeling OP has tendacies to throw caution into the wind.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
11.5:1 with E85 and Boost is a perfect combo. That setup is exactly what I plan on doing to my 11.5:1 track car in a year or so. E85 loves high compression and boost.
We'll be here to welcome you back.
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:38 AM   #15
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Thanks for all the reckless encouragement. Why is only one of you guys trying to talk some sense into me?

The thought of not being near an e85 station is scarry. I don't want to be confined to just my local area with this car. I saw a guy with an evo that had a 10gal portable e85 tank in his trunk that he took with him if he was venturing out of his known area. Anyone know what kind of mpg you'd get driving normaly, with ID 1000's? How many miles to a tank are you guys getting?

Ok, what if I always had my laptop with me, and I loaded a POG map. How dangerous would it be? What kind of tune would it take to run this cr, with an sc, on 91 pump gas?

If this was a track only car I'd be doing this in a heartbeat. Just sorting through the issues to see if this is doable.

Thanks again, and keep the input coming.
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:55 AM   #16
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Dan, we can chat pros and cons about E85 when you drop the car off. I have to drive ~200 miles to the nearest E85 station, so I can show you what I do as far as fuel storage and fillups when I am in SLO. Flexfuel isn't an option with the AEM and I would be very, very wary about 11.5:1, pump gas, and a Rotrex at any boost. E85 is awesome but it's kind of an all-or-nothing deal at this point.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I have to drive ~200 miles to the nearest E85 station
I thought you hippies had this and biodiesel at every corner. I really did think it was more readily available there than that though. Most people around me don't give a damn about alternative fuels and I can think of three E85 stations within 10 miles. One is less than a mile away.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:37 PM   #18
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get some cams

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Old 10-29-2010, 01:09 PM   #19
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With a turbo I might try it, but not with a supercharger.... You can't just turn the boost down if you get a bad tank of gas.
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:37 PM   #20
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Just get a 55 gal barrel.
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