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2560 vs 2860 boost numbers...

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Old Jan 7, 2009 | 12:36 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Braineack
1. A steep surge limit line indicates that the turbo will produce high boost pressures at low cfm before surge is produced. A surge line that leans sharply to the right, indicates that the turbo will not work at high boost pressures at low airflow rates.

2 & 3. It doesn't sound like you are calculating and reading the map correctly. What turbo? what power goal? Try reading turbobygarrett.com "turbo tech 103"
I was using the lb/min calculator here: Ray Hall Turbocharging - Java turbocharger flow map calculator

RPM points were 3000-4000-5000-6000-7000
VE was 80% across the board
Compressor efficiency was whatever my map said it would be when i punched in the boost and got a flow calculation.
Bore was 3.307in
Stroke was 3.346in
Cyl 4
Air Temp 20C
Intercooler Efficiency 70%

Basically I put in the values initially shaped on a T3-60 map, then used the lb/min numbers to cross reference it to a GT2560 map and make some adjustments.

My aim was to get the torque up to ~200lb-ft as fast as possible and hold it there as long as possible without heat-soaking my old Flying Miata intercooler.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 12:44 PM
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Default my calcs

I put together this spreadsheet a while back to help me decide between the 2560 and 2860rs. Take a look and see if it helps.
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turbocalcs2.xls (827.5 KB, 282 views)
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 12:49 PM
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This assumes 18psi to make 300rwhp. Will it take 18psi to make 300rwhp...I dunno. The math in the turbo tech 103 is pretty good.

this is why I'm found of the 2871:

Old Jan 7, 2009 | 01:42 PM
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RE: 18psi for 300hp, I built the spreadsheet from the tech103 article and Corky's book. I then scaled/fudge factored so that the numbers matched several real-world examples I'm aware of for 240hp at 12psi. 18psi for 300hp is what came out of that.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 01:48 PM
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there are so many factors, it's really impossible and wrong to say 18psi = 300rwhp. Remember Paul has made both 270rwhp and 300rwhp at 14psi on his 2560 all thing but the intake manifold being equal.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 02:06 PM
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Your calculators are more generous with airflow/psi than mine were. I was showing 22psi was necessary for 300WHP@7000.

According to your numbers I would still have some headroom left from ~4000 to ~6000 on the 2560 to bump up the torque even more.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 02:08 PM
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Braineack, what's the basis behind the red dots? Reference points to different RPMs? I might try to do a map like that for different boost and RPMS for my GT3271. Would be interesting for sure.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
Braineack, what's the basis behind the red dots? Reference points to different RPMs? I might try to do a map like that for different boost and RPMS for my GT3271. Would be interesting for sure.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t23229/

They are plots to show where on the compressor map the flow would fall at any given pressure ratio.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
Braineack, what's the basis behind the red dots? Reference points to different RPMs? I might try to do a map like that for different boost and RPMS for my GT3271. Would be interesting for sure.
Squirrel Performance - Turbo Calculator Version 4
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 02:34 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by DammitBeavis
Your calculators are more generous with airflow/psi than mine were. I was showing 22psi was necessary for 300WHP@7000.

According to your numbers I would still have some headroom left from ~4000 to ~6000 on the 2560 to bump up the torque even more.

see what Paul did to run 300rwhp @ 14psi and then 310rwhp @ 17psi, the turbo is completely spent.

Old Jan 7, 2009 | 02:37 PM
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My turbo at 16 PSI



My turbo at 21 PSI:





My turbo at 24 PSI:





My turbo at 11 PSI, where I'm at now:

Old Jan 7, 2009 | 02:54 PM
  #32  
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That's very encouraging.
According to Paul's sig he has better exhaust flow than I will which means I probably won't hit that kind of topend power. But it looks like he ran a flat amount of boost. I've got a ported/polished head with big backcut valves, so hopefully I can hold ~250lb/ft through the midrange with a strategically shaped boost curve.

What kind a fuel was that on?
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 03:02 PM
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I like the 2871-2 for 300-350 hp...
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 03:02 PM
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93 octane, keep in mind his IM as well, that made all the difference in the world for his torque curve.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Braineack
93 octane, keep in mind his IM as well, that made all the difference in the world for his torque curve.
No kidding. Where's all the badass intake manifolds that are supposed to be put into production this winter?....

And looks my turbo's pretty efficient for a 1.8L.
Old Jan 7, 2009 | 04:59 PM
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like this one?

Name:  IntakeManifold001.jpg
Views: 2056
Size:  164.6 KB

I know of two other 1.6Ls that have IMs on the way.
Old Jan 8, 2009 | 03:51 AM
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Brain, whats the deal with the front temp sensor broken off? How are you controlling the fan?
Old Jan 8, 2009 | 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Braineack
like this one?



I know of two other 1.6Ls that have IMs on the way.
Plug your IAT sensor in
Old Jan 8, 2009 | 09:13 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by thesnowboarder
Brain, whats the deal with the front temp sensor broken off? How are you controlling the fan?
I use MS to control the fans, that thermoswitch is now a simple plug to prevent coolant from sparying all over the place.

Originally Posted by Savington
Plug your IAT sensor in
I use that spare AIT to plug the bung, I have yet to buy a real 3/8" plug for it. The AIT sensor is connected and installed out of the engine bay just after the IC.
Old Jan 8, 2009 | 10:13 AM
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i might have a 3/8 plug in my basement. remind or come by tonight and we'll look.



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