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Old 08-15-2014, 11:57 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by williams805 View Post
I did 78 ft lbs. I thought I read from either Emilio or Andrew about not going over 85 or something like that. Don't quote me on that but it's what I recall. I figured that was close enough to 80. + The lube on thread and nut and washer I figured that was plenty.


Thanks for your input. I did 70 with assembly lube.
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:11 AM   #22
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so let me get this straight:

-you ask a question that has been discussed and easily found
-you tell everyone to spoon feed you the info cause you're too special to adhere to the rules everyone else does
-you call people out
-you conclude the thread with calling everyone a bs'er

Congrats. I don't think you coulda been more of a douche if you actually tried.

Listen guy, you've been up my *** since I've started this forum. I've done nothing but ask questions and all I get is **** from you and a select few others.

I don't care how many times a question has been asked and discussed or how many thread repeats I create. There is always someone new to input their thoughts. Novelty to a stale topic and that's what I look for when searching for answers on a forum.

It apparent so far that every newbie or junior member has positive input to my questions and most of the senior\elite I've encountered have bitterness and insults.
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:24 AM   #23
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What the hell is a Hear Stud?
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:39 AM   #24
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This thread is now about SCUD

TL;DR
Take a German V2, make it simpler, put it on a truck, make a million of them



Scud is a series of tactical ballistic missiles developed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. It was exported widely to other countries, in particular third world countries. The term comes from the NATO reporting name Scud which was attached to the missile by Western intelligence agencies. The Russian names for the missile are the R-11 (the first version), R-17 and R-300 Elbrus (later developments). The name Scud has been widely used to refer to these missiles and the wide variety of derivative variants developed in other countries based on the Soviet design.


(I've been to this museum when I was 6)

The first use of the term Scud was in the NATO name SS-1b Scud-A, applied to the R-11 ballistic missile. The earlier R-1 missile had carried the NATO name SS-1 Scunner, but was of a very different design, almost directly a copy of the German V-2. The R-11 used technology gained from the V-2 as well, but was a new design, smaller and differently shaped than the V-2 and R-1 weapons. The R-11 was developed by the Korolyev OKB[1] and entered service in 1957. The most revolutionary innovation in the R-11 was the engine, designed by A.M. Isaev. Far simpler than the V-2's multi-chamber design, and employing an anti-oscillation baffle to prevent chugging, it was a forerunner to the larger engines used in Soviet launch vehicles.


DAT ***

Further developed variants were the R-300 Elbrus / SS-1c Scud-B in 1961 and the SS-1d Scud-C in 1965, both of which could carry either a conventional high-explosive, a 5- to 80-kiloton nuclear, or a chemical (thickened VX) warhead. The SS-1e Scud-D variant developed in the 1980s can deliver a terminally guided warhead capable of greater precision.

All models are 11.35 m (37.2 ft) long (except Scud-A, which is 1 m (3 ft 3 in) shorter) and 0.88 m (2 ft 11 in) in diameter (DAT GIRTH). They are propelled by a single liquid-fuel rocket engine burning kerosene and corrosion inhibited red fuming nitric acid (IRFNA) with UDMH, unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (Russian TG-02 like German Tonka 250) as liquid igniter (self ignition with IRFNA) in all models.

The missile reaches a maximum speed of mach 5.
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:04 AM   #25
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Listen guy, you've been up my *** since I've started this forum. I've done nothing but ask questions and all I get is **** from you and a select few others.

I don't care how many times a question has been asked and discussed or how many thread repeats I create. There is always someone new to input their thoughts. Novelty to a stale topic and that's what I look for when searching for answers on a forum.

It apparent so far that every newbie or junior member has positive input to my questions and most of the senior\elite I've encountered have bitterness and insults.
You're not special, cupcake.
Learn to search like the rest of the peasants
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:29 AM   #26
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I just torque it until I hear a loud crack sound, then I move on to the next one and repeat until I'm done with all. Has worked great on the 50+ heads I've gone through! That means I have lots of experience with this
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:24 AM   #27
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What the hell is a Hear Stud?
Auto correct dicked that up on me
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:33 AM   #28
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Don't want to be special. I just don't have time to sit around and search through the 24 pages inside of the 2600 thread inside 9 topics, just to question who is full of **** and who knows what they're talking about.

A newbie member with 2 total posts maybe the best engine builder this site has ever seen and a member with .. Say, 18000 posts may be an incompetent tit with regurgitated information.

So numbers and member title mean nothing on any forum.

So far I've met 2 members I can trust and it's because I know their background and what they do.

Last edited by jandjracing_58; 08-16-2014 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:12 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jandjracing_58 View Post
First off, please don't give me **** about repeat threads, it takes 10 second to reply this post.
It also takes 10 seconds to call ARP and get their recommendation. It also takes 10 seconds to read the data card that came in the box with the studs. Why did you start this thread again? We get angry about repeat threads because it makes it harder to search of the information we are looking for. The signal:noise ratio on this site is still pretty decent and we aim to keep it that way.

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I just don't have time to sit around and search through the 24 pages inside of the 2600 thread inside 9 topics, just to question who is full of **** and who knows what they're talking about.
What makes you think we have the time or desire to explain again what has already been hashed out over "24 pages inside of the 2600 thread inside 9 topics?" Most of us don't know this **** off the top of our heads so to get the answers we need, we are forced to do the same thing we are telling you to do: we search for it. Why would we take the time to do something for you when we know you have the same tools available at your fingertips?

As to who is full of ****, everyone is full of ****. This is the goddamn internet, are you new here? We already know who is full of **** and who knows what they are talking about because we don't just come here to mooch knowledge, we participate and engage in lively discussion on a daily basis. This is where the guys with the 1k+ post counts come from. Read and follow along and participate. Don't just barge in here, demand help and then get butthurt when we decide we don't want to spoon feed you. We have invested the time to be participating members here on the forum, why is it unacceptable for us to desire the same of you?

Also, dude... I'm not sure I would trust the word of a bunch of random dudes on the internet about torque specs for an engine build project without spending some significant time verifying that data.

Quote:
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So far I've met 2 members I can trust and it's because I know their background and what they do.
Great! I'm sure they warned you about this place too. Join the "community" here at MT and get to know some more people. I briefly searched back through your post history and discovered you are in the middle of naturally aspirated PTE type build that I'm sure a lot of people would love to read about. Go start a build thread and link it in your sig. Fill it with pics and tell us all about your plans. We will be much more likely to help you after we get to know you. It's not that hard, this isn't rocket SCUD surgery.
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:24 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by asmasm View Post

Above thread should be a must read for anyone using ARP fasteners - All 4 pages.

Its interesting that ARP has a "one size fits all instruction sheet" that just does not work for the BP cylinder head. Torque to yield should be the stud or bolt not the head casting...
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by EO2K View Post

Great! I'm sure they warned you about this place too. Join the "community" here at MT and get to know some more people. I briefly searched back through your post history and discovered you are in the middle of naturally aspirated PTE type build that I'm sure a lot of people would love to read about. Go start a build thread and link it in your sig. Fill it with pics and tell us all about your plans. We will be much more likely to help you after we get to know you. It's not that hard, this isn't rocket SCUD surgery.

You know, I think your right. I will compile a write up and post it.

Your also right about expecting answers, my apologies.. Sometimes I get too busy to take the time. I figured inside this forum there is some one with the knowledge on hand or knows it well.
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by 99Racer View Post
Above thread should be a must read for anyone using ARP fasteners - All 4 pages.

Its interesting that ARP has a "one size fits all instruction sheet" that just does not work for the BP cylinder head. Torque to yield should be the stud or bolt not the head casting...
Thanks for that. I had not come across that before. I won't be exceeding 65 fl lbs in the future.
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:18 PM   #33
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For what its worth I've done the 3-step method (30lb, 45lb, 60lb) on at least 2 BP's with ARP head studs with great results.
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:36 PM   #34
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For what its worth I've done the 3-step method (30lb, 45lb, 60lb) on at least 2 BP's with ARP head studs with great results.
Thank you. My process wasn't too far off 30, 50, 70. I just got it running about an hour ago. So far it appears to be good, but I won't know for sure until either dyno day or my next race.
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:43 AM   #35
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For what its worth I've done the 3-step method (30lb, 45lb, 60lb) on at least 2 BP's with ARP head studs with great results.
We did the same maybe 56lbs if I recall Sav's post...
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:44 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
You're going to use an ARP product because they're superior, but choose to ignore their instructions?


Curious choice.
Not as curious as you might think. IIRC it was FM who worked with ARP to get those studs made. Their original torque spec was 49ft.lbs, which matched the factory clamp load. When I bought my first set in 2009, the instructions said 65ft.lbs, so that's what I did. I installed several sets at that setting before looking at a fresh set of instructions somewhere around 2011-2012, and to my surprise they said 80ft.lbs. A little forum reading turned up Bob's experiences with cracked heads at 80ft.lbs. Clearly, the engineer at ARP who said 49 is no longer there, and ARP doesn't care enough to put thought into their specs beyond "X diameter + Y thread pitch = Z torque".

I torque ARP studs to 65ft.lbs.
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Old 08-17-2014, 02:27 PM   #37
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I torque ARP studs to 65ft.lbs.
Good to know, thanks sav.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:40 PM   #38
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I just did a fresh rebuild with ARPs. Haven't even fired it up. I torque to the sheet indicated 80. Any reason to undo it and go back to the 65 since nothing bad happened?
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:29 AM   #39
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If it did any damage, it's already been done. Go with it and hope for the best. 80 sounded way to high, I torqued mine at 70 which is 5 pounds over factory recommended and I'm nervous to see what happens. I will report back with the result of the tune.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:44 AM   #40
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I just did a fresh rebuild with ARPs. Haven't even fired it up. I torque to the sheet indicated 80. Any reason to undo it and go back to the 65 since nothing bad happened?
I sure as hell wouldn't "untorque" it now. Run it! I'm sure it's fine, although after what Sav said I think I'm going to be torquing mine to ~65/70 when i finally toss this motor together.
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