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Old 02-13-2012, 11:55 AM   #1
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Default ATI damper and Billet oil pump gears??

So here's my question... If Im running Billet oil pump gears is it necessary to spend the money for an ATI damper? I haven't heard many of the higher HP guys say anything about getting an after market damper but I'm not really wanting to cut corners since I'm sinking a small fortune into this engine.... I know the damper does more than help against the oil pump exploding but just wonderingif it's a HAVE TO HAVE or not....
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:11 PM   #2
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in for opinions....
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:36 PM   #3
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So here's my question... If Im running Billet oil pump gears is it necessary to spend the money for an ATI damper? I haven't heard many of the higher HP guys say anything about getting an after market damper but I'm not really wanting to cut corners since I'm sinking a small fortune into this engine.... I know the damper does more than help against the oil pump exploding but just wonderingif it's a HAVE TO HAVE or not....
I have both.

The damper did make my miata smoother. It's actually VERY VERY smooth.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:29 PM   #4
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I did not plan to get either right now since I'll tear down and inspect after 8 hours anyway, but since the OEM damper was shot, I got the ATI (instead of another OEM).
The OEM pump looks really good during my build but it might get replaced sometime down the line.

But I'm no authority on the issue, just someone who hope that an OEM VVT pump that have seen 80k miles (and looks good) will be enough for a built VVT engine with normal clearances.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:54 PM   #5
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I have both.

The damper did make my miata smoother. It's actually VERY VERY smooth.
So "smooth" is worth $550? and what exactly is smooth? did you ever run the stock balancer with your built engine to compare the differences? I mean who's to say that since you have it fully balanced internally that that is the reason for the smoothness?
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:02 PM   #6
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:05 PM   #7
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I used both in my build. I agree with Fae in that the engine is significantly smoother with the ATI damper - reason enough to do it, even discounting the "insurance" angle.
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:07 PM   #8
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I used both in my build. I agree with Fae in that the engine is significantly smoother with the ATI damper - reason enough to do it, even discounting the "insurance" angle.
Same question to you I asked Fae...?
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:15 PM   #9
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:45 PM   #10
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So "smooth" is worth $550?
Yes, to me it was.

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and what exactly is smooth?
Smooth isn't how the engine felt, I'd never consider a BP engine smooth. I base smooth on what my knock sensor was telling me. I'm sure others will disagree with using that as the basis for my opinion, but that was the only option I had at the time to make a comparison.

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did you ever run the stock balancer with your built engine to compare the differences?
Yes.

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I mean who's to say that since you have it fully balanced internally that that is the reason for the smoothness?
That's why it was ran with and without the ATI damper.
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:53 PM   #11
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Same question to you I asked Fae...?
Can't tell you for sure since, unlike JayL, I didn't do a before/after comparison. It's documented that the ATI damper allows you to run more timing, which is evidence of improvement.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:20 PM   #12
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How much more timing/power becomes available? links?
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
I did not plan to get either right now since I'll tear down and inspect after 8 hours anyway, but since the OEM damper was shot, I got the ATI (instead of another OEM).
The OEM pump looks really good during my build but it might get replaced sometime down the line.

But I'm no authority on the issue, just someone who hope that an OEM VVT pump that have seen 80k miles (and looks good) will be enough for a built VVT engine with normal clearances.
8 hour rebuild? Daymn nig
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
How much more timing/power becomes available? links?

All of it?


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Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
So "smooth" is worth $550? and what exactly is smooth? did you ever run the stock balancer with your built engine to compare the differences? I mean who's to say that since you have it fully balanced internally that that is the reason for the smoothness?

My engine is NOT fully balanced internally. In fact, I did NO balancing for ANYTHING on my engine. Suck on it Trebek! Suck it long. And suck it hard.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:09 PM   #15
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in for opinions....


Look I will save you the braincycles.


If you're going to aim for a worthwhile amount of horsepower-- 400+++++

then you had better start picking pennies up off the sidewalk.


My build is not -that- all out for the driveline, but I still have $10-$15K in the whole thing.

Damper cost is negligible if you are already spending $10k.

If you're not, and just want 350hp or so just run billet gears and *** it, be done. You might be able to save $5000+
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:28 PM   #16
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8 hour rebuild? Daymn nig
It only runs about 8 hours per season so why not make a checkup during the winter months.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:44 PM   #17
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The only thing possibily misssing in my engine build is this ATI "SUPER DAMPER" and I just have a hard time believeing it's the missing link in my 500 hp build.....the only reason I originally considered it was to run a magnet setup for timing.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:51 PM   #18
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How much more timing/power becomes available? links?
I can't remember exactly how much. Bill and Jeremy at FM verified it to be the case when I was planning my build, but if you want independent confirmation, check post #409 in this thread.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:57 PM   #19
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good info, I might give them a call.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Look I will save you the braincycles.


If you're going to aim for a worthwhile amount of horsepower-- 400+++++

then you had better start picking pennies up off the sidewalk.


My build is not -that- all out for the driveline, but I still have $10-$15K in the whole thing.

Damper cost is negligible if you are already spending $10k.

If you're not, and just want 350hp or so just run billet gears and *** it, be done. You might be able to save $5000+
This.

I got one for this reason. Anything I can do to possibly make the engine last a little longer I did, and some. If you got the money to build a 500hp car, why not buy a 500 part to make it run a little smoother. If you don't have the money, I wouldn't consider it necessary for a build.
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