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Old 11-28-2011, 08:39 PM   #1
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Default basic motor ?'s

i really love to drive my miata and i was wondering that 115hp felt nice, if 150 would feel better. and my answer is yes.
im running somewhat on a simple build/ budget.
and was wondering if adding a set of aftermarket headers and complete cat back exhaust cold air intake and chip tuning would give me that feeling that im trying to acheive. or is forced induction almost always the answer to get the power. im not looking to fly down the quarter mile just looking to be able to not get smoked by a caravan lol. i have been reading many builds. and i was trying to start mine some where.

i have a 91 red 5spd with a roll bar and 175,xxx miles. 1.6l
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:52 PM   #2
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You have a lot of reading to do. The short version of the story is that a 99 engines with MS, RB header, and decent intake can make 140whp with excellent tuning, a VVT engine can make 150-160whp though it's not as well documented. I plan to swap in a VVT engine in my car tune the **** out of it, and talk about it with precision detail on this forum in the spring. A 150whp Miata is fun, and can be brutally fast on a road course in similar cars or on a poser track day.

The reality is that another $3500 in turbo parts makes for a wildly fun car but you're only scratching the surface of the kind of money you NEED to spend for a reliable street car. $5k builds a solid turbo daily driver, $10k for a track set-up like what I run. For whatever the turbo kit costs, double it for things like cooling, heat abatement, zip ties, and relearning. When you hit the 10lb/1hp ratio, it's really the sweet spot of a fun car. Fast enough to get yourself a trip to jail at any time and feel like you're the king of the road. On the track, if you spend the money, you'll be able to keep up with C6 Vettes and Bauce 302s with good drivers on similar tires before aero. Once you add aero to the Miata you break into mild super-car territory since we have skinny tires.

I ahve a 60-page build thread where I went from $3700 in turbo parts to a different kit and another $10k in bullshit parts to build one of the best Miatas in the country that you can go very fast on the track and drive to work on Fridays.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:54 PM   #3
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so if im going to do it. i minus well drop the right amount of money on a daily? im just trying to get like a little more fun. or if i bother doing that will i just make a ton of noise LOL or will i even see anything worth the 500 bux.

also ill keep reading and finding out everything i need to know thanks!
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
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so if im going to do it. i minus well drop the right amount of money on a daily? im just trying to get like a little more fun. or if i bother doing that will i just make a ton of noise LOL or will i even see anything worth the 500 bux.

also ill keep reading and finding out everything i need to know thanks!
Before you spend another cent decide if you want 150whp or 250whp. You have to draw a line in the sand from day one or you will burn money. $500 will not get your 1.6 to make anything near 150whp. However, $700 will get you either the Reverant MS2+++^2 or MSpnp and that is about the only thing you can interchange with a turbo. MS is a great initial purchase because you get to learn on an engine that you cannot possibly blow up without malicious intent, you will learn a lot, you will develop a sense of pride and accomplishment, and you will potentially be respected by your peers. I've tuned a 1.6 that made 120whp with I/H/E on MS1.

I must warn you though as you're on your first venture into engine management, the gods of tuning will hold you accountable for effort and understanding of basic concepts and execution so the learning curve is steep and unforgiving. It took me about 6-months to really figure out what was going on with my internet friends by my side.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:10 PM   #5
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If you are planning on staying sub 200hp you could probably get away with a megasquit, bigger injectors, and then an old greddy kit.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:10 PM   #6
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I'll try to answer.
I have experience with 4 different configurations, some of them dyno'ed on a Dyno Dynamics.
1) Stock 91 with 180k, that I currently daily drive.
2) 91 with 1.8 swap and MegaSquirt - Dyno at 94hp
3) 91 with 1.8 swap as above, plus exhintake mod and 2.5" turbo exhaust - Dyno at 102hp on same dyno.
4) 91 with 1.8 swap as above, plus SR20 T25 intercooled turbo @ 10 psi


#1 is basically your car, and from other people's experience on that dyno would be about 85hp. It's miserably slow, even in 2nd gear. It's a ton of fun to drive though.

#2 felt much faster, for only 10hp. The whole rev range just felt better with megasquirt + extra displacement.

#3 felt only mildly faster than #3, but stupid loud (tip: don't run turbo exhausts on non-turbo cars)

#4 is holy ****. If I'm doing 60 in 5th and put my foot down, I'll be at 100 by the time #1 car is at 70. I have no idea how much power it makes, but maybe 160 on a dyno dynamics? 180? I don't know, it's a small turbo. Will find out in spring.

The turbo is BY FAR the most fun, powerful power adder. But to get to get the turbo running, I had to do all the other little things, like wideband, ECU, fuel injectors and whatever. While I was doing all that, my car was N/A (See #2 and #3). I thought about buying a cheap used header - another 5hp maybe? So if you want to do a build, you can do it while N/A and then slap a turbo on for all the glory.

P.S. Dyno Dynamics is a pretty brutal dyno so you can take all of the above numbers and multiply them by 10-20%.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:31 PM   #7
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Remember that if you're at 90hp now (conservative) and tune up to 120whp, that's a 25% increase in output. It will also teach you how to be a man for the first time in your life and make you want to try women, again.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:44 PM   #8
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oh nice thanks for all the input, im going to school for collision repair and once im done this course ina few months ill be taking the engine rebuild eletective and i plan on doing my 1.6 over right.

also when i said 150 it was a strange number i just threw it out. when you said 120 hp a 25% increase thats more what im talking about.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:45 PM   #9
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Rebuilding your engine is like, the last thing to do for cheap power.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:47 PM   #10
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if you want to outrun a minivan on its way to soccer practice you'll need boost.
150hp is slow as **** on the street, sorry.
I'd get a starter turbo kit (begi, greddy, etc) and run it at low boost on stock exhaust. you'll make a quiet torquey 150Whp which is a whole lot more than 150hp, and a ton more torque as well, which is the biggest fun factor on teh street
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:51 PM   #11
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VVT motor with head work, cam, intake, header, etc should make 150-160 and be fun. You can also build a cheap turbo kit for about the same price and make 180-200. I agree with Hustler though, the first step is something to tune with megasquirt, aem, hydra, whatever.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:58 PM   #12
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VVT motor with head work, cam, intake, header, etc should make 150-160 and be fun. You can also build a cheap turbo kit for about the same price and make 180-200. I agree with Hustler though, the first step is something to tune with megasquirt, aem, hydra, whatever.
sounds intresting ill search more on that, playing with the head and cam is something that would awesome
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
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sounds intresting ill search more on that, playing with the head and cam is something that would awesome
If you want to go the naturally aspirated VVT route I would suggest first going with an MS3x. This way you learn the engine management side and it supports VVT.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:16 PM   #14
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Welcome to the site Alex.
You're from Philly? How about you drive up to Reading on Saturday and I'll let you drive my car. It has a small turbo and makes about 200whp. That should give you a better opinion. I'd hate to see you spend all kinds of money and not be happy.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:26 PM   #15
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Welcome to the site Alex.
You're from Philly? How about you drive up to Reading on Saturday and I'll let you drive my car. It has a small turbo and makes about 200whp. That should give you a better opinion. I'd hate to see you spend all kinds of money and not be happy.
nice that would be a cool deal im in the levittown area reading is a good drive but to sit in the seat of a fast turbo miata im down hah
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:31 PM   #16
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My wifes relation is from Levittown, and I was just down there last week for a funeral. I took the turn pike from Allentown. Took like 1 hour?
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
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playing with the head and cam is something that would awesome
Yes, it would awesome.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:52 PM   #18
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Yes, it would awesome.
lmao sorry thats was one of my drool moments
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:02 PM   #19
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lmao sorry thats was one of my drool moments
We tend to be some what grammar ****'s on here.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:13 AM   #20
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1. Pull the engine from the vette.
2. Swap the engine into your miata.
3. Toss the vette in the trash.
4. **** bitchez.
5. Profit???
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