Beginning to gather parts for build, need experienced input!
 

I'm looking to build my motor. I've gotten a very good job so I'll be able to afford it quickly. Currently 1.6. I would prefer to build a 1.6 and have it high revving. So valvetrain, cams, and balancing is going in with the forged internals. My goal is to hit a comfortable 400whp with the 1.6. I know it's been done, but is sticking with 1.6 to be unique worth the drawbacks from the displacement, low end, spool, and the ability to use vvt? It is a very expensive build, but I will be able to afford it shortly. I'm currently making ~220whp on the stock 1.6. Greddy 15g/greddy manifold, torsen diff, stock 5 spd. Everything will need to be upgraded to hold that much power and I'm going all out, no shortcuts on this build.

Current build list:
1000cc ID injectors
Supertech valves/springs/seals
ARP hardware
ACL bearings
Walbro 255LPH fuel pump
Wiseco 9.5:1 Pistons .020 over
Billet oil pump/gears
OEM gaskets/seals
Stage 4 comp clutch
NB 6 speed
3.636 Torsen diff
EFR6258 Turbo
Custom downpipe
Custom manifold
Mishimoto radiator
And all associated machine work for the block/head.

I'll be ordering parts in a few weeks to start collecting things I'll need. What setup do you guys run? Clutch opinions? Turbo options? 1.6 or 1.8?

Buy a 1.8 vvt motor. You are wasting money otherwise.

^what he said. 1.8 will rev just as high.

Please, spend 10 thousand dollars on your 1.6!

We all want to laugh at you when you can't break 300whp!

Seriously! Please do it, so I can beat your numbers with a stock 1.8 and rotrex.

Not kidding.

Well that settles that part of it. lol. So I'll basically be getting those same parts for a 1.8 then. Would it be fine to pick up a 1.8 block and just put on the vvt head?

Also, I recall seeing a few threads about people making over 350 with a 1.6...

Yes, people have made big power on a 1.6 before.
It just could have been done more easily, cheaply, and with a drastically better power band on a 1.8.
We are serious. Don't spend money upgrading a 1.6. It's dumb.

And yes, a VVT head will fit any 1.8 block, but you will need an intake manifold from 99-00 or a flat top.
Also, buy an earlier head gasket for the coolant reroute you are going to do.

You've already convinced me of that. Which rods/pistons tend to do the best? And which overbore should I go with?

What is the purpose of the earlier head gasket? Early as in 94-98?

For your goals (not very realistic by the way), I would go with supertech pistons with Wiseco rings.
Only overbore the minimum amount necessary to fix cylinder wall damage.
These blocks don't have much meat to take off.

94-00.
The coolant passages changed in the gasket after 01. The earlier ones work better with a coolant reroute.

Why would you say it is not a realistic number? I've went to the proper 1.8 side of the fence now! With a good flowing intake/head and exhaust/exhaust mani, large turbo, and a solid tune and it should be very reasonable to break into the 350 range. 400 will be pushing more limits of more parts, but I don't find it to be unrealistic. That's a piston setup I've also been looking at. And good point about the boring. Which rods would be best? Carillo? Manley?

Trans tends to blow up around 350. So you will need a trans solution.

400 will blow tires off in any gear and basically be useless,

Not sure about the rods. I'm not sure anyone has found the limit of a set of h-beam rods including the eBay specials.
Just buy whatever trackspeed sells.
I admit that you have a good parts list, but actually hitting 400 takes a great expense, and even the 6 speed won't last too long there.
I would love to be proved wrong, but not many people have actually hit that power level reliably.
Why not buy the cast trackspeed manifold instead of building a custom one?

Contact Andrew at trackspeedengineering.com 650-701-7223

Talk to him about your goals, he is where I'm going for my built engine (when i blow my stocker)

Is he someone I can talk to to get an idea of what I need to do to hit my goals?
I plan on getting flares and running 275 mickeys in the rear. 400 won't come for a while until I can pick up a diff mount kit for a ford 8.8 and a custom driveshaft. I know the 6 speed gets sketchy at around that range as well, what about the T II trans?

Call Andrew at Trackspeed engineering. Tell him you want a built vvt motor. Write him a blank check and be done with it.

I also hope you have 10+ thousand sitting around to do this. It will cost far more then you expect to get to the power levels you want.

I don't see the point in having someone else build an engine for me after labor and shipping costs it's going to be far more expensive than assembling myself. 10k was my original estimate to achieve 400.

Are you building this to drag race?

I want to see this dyno sheet for your current 1.6 with 220 hp. I don't believe you.

A 1.8 with 275-300 will be a handfull to drive, and costs a shitloads to be reliable. Think 10-12k if you need fabrication help. 6-8 if you dont. Keep that in mind.

I say more than 10k easy.

A 6258 is likely not enough to take you to 400 whp either.

You'll need E85 to hit your power goals most likely, or turn the engine 8000 rpm.

who cares, let him dream. just a few posts ago he wanted to build a 1.6 for the "high revving"

Well it might be worth it just to be unique.

Sure if you want to be an asshole about it. It's just basic theory that less mass equates to more rotational capability. Glad I came here for help and just have a bunch of douches circle jerkings because I wanted to work with a 1.6.

Welcome to mt.net. Where people with stupid theories get butthurt when they are told they are wrong.

Ease up dude.
Everyone is taking it very easy with you so far.

So what is a "realistic" number then. Or should I just ls swap?

Double post

Do everything you've talked about so far, but shoot for 300 first.
That is more power than many can safely handle in a miata, and your car will be much more reliable.
Turn up the boost as your skill increases.

Swap. Period. Something to understand, is that these are not Honda engines. They wont spin 9k and be ok with it. They don't rev, not for long anway. The 1.6 and 1.8 are basically the same engine, one just has a smaller bore. Basically. So when you decide to use a 1.6, you are at a few distinct disadvantages.

1. Off the shelf Parts availability for 1.6 is limited.
2. You will have slower spool, always.
3. You will have less tq. And less hp. For any given mod. Always.
4. You will be ridiculed for using a poo poo platform. Always.


Don't let the flaming get to you. Don't get defensive, this site is a cornucopia of information. Other sites will make you feel really good about your lame plans, that simply will not happen here. This is home to the most bad ass machines around. Not turds, wrapped in Plasti-Dip, sittin' low on Racelands.

Accept it, be a part of it, or move on.

An efr6758 will let you hit 400, and wont spool like donky dick.

Is this your first car build? Or do you have real experience.

I have some experience. I've rebuilt a few 351w with my dad. Currently I have a greddy turbo/manifold, 2.5" turboback straightpipe, 440cc injectors, clutchmasters stage 2 clutch/flywheel, Corbeau Forza seats, Sparco 5 pt harness, sparco steering wheel, FM intercooler, 3.9 Torsen diff, MSPNP2 tuned by me. All rolling on RS3s in 225/45/15. I did 95% of the work.

If your goal is 400hp then your seats are fine, steering wheel, seat belts, tires I guess, MS.

I'm not sure the miata the the platform for you. v8 is going to be your path if you stay with miata. I agree with Ryan.

Something people cant seem to get through their heads is that no matter how much power you put down with a Miata they are still only going to be so fast. Their transmission and rear end gearing see to that. Max speed on a miata with swapped 3.9 rear end is 150. @ 8k rpm (lots of head work where the head will prematurely die anyway) it's 165 or so MAX. Anyway my point is if you are replacing all those things you don't really have a miata anymore.... and It would take you forever to get to 165 and lots of extra aero... a long long road. For 20k you can buy an older z06 and do 150 coming out of your driveway. I've never had my miata over 120 in a controlled environment. Not enough straight.

I think his current set up is making maybe 180 hp. Maybe. OP, a 275-300 hp miata is insane. It is also pretty damn reliable with about 10k. Your 400 hp dream will be a mechanical nightmare. You will spend 15k and then another 3k every rear in broken parts.

don't get mad just cause you're ignorant.
don't let the ego stand in the way of acceptance that you know nothing and need to learn. building some old school chevy nearly nothing to do with turboing a miata.

it's one thing to come in here and ask for advice, it's another to state goals and state mod lists that you just came up with outa thin air which make no sense, and then get mad that we poke fun of a really moronic theory that you had/have/will have.

:)

Now, are you ready to start reading?

351W is Ford bruh

Oh my bad that changes everything :laugh:

GUYS! The op has already changed his mind. He is going with a 1.8L VVT engine.

Just so we are all on the same page.

I know slightly more than nothing. It's in the realm of 220. That's what virtual dyno is giving me. I'm pushing 15psi right now, granted I can't keep my boost curve flat with closed loop on the ebc for some reason. I suppose the biggest thing I want out of this build is to have a linear powerband. I hate getting pulled because my tiny turbo can't flow enough. The stock motor wouldn't like much more air thrown at it.

So, are you building this to mainly drag race? You may be disappointed no matter how much power you have.
Miatas simply aren't good drag cars.

I have a road course somewhat close to me that I plan on running. And for the occasional street pull.

Gotcha.
A well executed high power turbo build costs good money. So does a well executed v8 swap.
A lower powered turbo build is more realistic, is more drivable, and you have some parts already.
V8s sound cool.
Ask your spirit animal which path you should take.

My spirit animal has been racking my brain about this for a few weeks now. I'm leaning towards going for a 1.8 vvt and an nb 6 spd, and aim for 300whp at first. My next dilemma is whether or not to build the valvetrain. Is it worth the extra ~1k to do it?

Depends on how high you want to rev it.
I bought a head with supertech light doubles already installed for 450.
I would say yes. It's never a bad idea to overbuild.

I'm thinking 7500 for most occasions and 8000 for when I need it? Nothing crazy.

With close to 300hp I rarely find it necessary to even go to 7k. The drag strip is the only place I have felt the need to take it to 7,200. It just isn't necessary,it makes so much power in the 3.5-5k range.

I see. Well I suppose I could always decide to build the valvetrain later down the road. What compression ratio would you recommend?

See post 29 from TODAY. Now he is even talking about v8. You, he and we, are not on the same page.

~9.0 if you are on pump gas.
Higher if you have e85 available

I do have e85 available. What are your thought on water/meth?

How available is e85? Like every station, or two in your city? How often do you get away e85 being available?

I am a huge fan of 84mm 8.6:1 Supetech pistons. You give up a bit having the less compression, but your safety margin on pump gas is much higher.

Water/meth is not really big here. Mostly because a good front mount intercooler works just as well at those power levels and it does not ever run out. Just make sure you have a very good intercooler core.

Try $15k+ if you want a reliable 400hp turbo miata on the track.

Also if you are just "thinking" about running on a road course then take your 200hp there and learn to drive. You will be surprised how fast you can be with 200hp on a road course.

This thread makes me soft and flaccid.

There's two pumps within 15 minutes of my house. It's pretty great.

I'm like 15k deep in mine and I wish I would have gone v8.With that said. I still have more work to do. It'll be good when i'm finished but probably another 5k away

That's because MT is turning a new leaf. Two years ago, this guy would have been set on fire and left to live out the rest of his life on mx5.

Doesn't mean dick. Virtual dyno said my car makes like 425 or something stupid.

Well maybe you should learn how to use the program properly. It gives somewhat accurate numbers with the right values.