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Old 02-07-2013, 04:26 AM   #1
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Default Build stage 2. Lets tear some s**t up!

Love my current build, but the time has come to think a bit bigger.

Found a Junkyard 1.8 to swap in for $130. Trying to rebuild the engine to handle 300-350hp(with bigger turbo, etc.) eventually. My car is my DD and autocross bitch, possibly occasional track ***** if I can get all the safety stuff together. I need a bit of help as it is my first time rebuilding the bottom end.

Here are my parts I'm assembling

1. Egay Rods
2. Stock Pistons
3. New Piston Rings
4. Complete engine seal kit, mostly fel-pro
5. SuperTech valve stem seals
6. Acl Race bearing set
7. Arp Rod, head and Main bolts
8. Fel-pro Head gasket
9. New Timing belt, Water pump

Don't have money to spend on $400 pistons as I'm going to doing a diy Satin black paint job on it while the engine is out.

Questions are:

1. Do I need to have the Crank polished?
2. How to I determine which size of Acl bearings to use?
3. What services should I have the shop do?
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:45 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubenpdon View Post
Love my current build, but the time has come to think a bit bigger.

Found a Junkyard 1.8 to swap in for $130. Trying to rebuild the engine to handle 300-350hp(with bigger turbo, etc.) eventually. My car is my DD and autocross bitch, possibly occasional track ***** if I can get all the safety stuff together. I need a bit of help as it is my first time rebuilding the bottom end.

Here are my parts I'm assembling

1. Egay Rods
2. Stock Pistons
3. New Piston Rings
4. Complete engine seal kit, mostly fel-pro
5. SuperTech valve stem seals
6. Acl Race bearing set
7. Arp Rod, head and Main bolts
8. Fel-pro Head gasket
9. New Timing belt, Water pump

Don't have money to spend on $400 pistons as I'm going to doing a diy Satin black paint job on it while the engine is out.

Questions are:

1. Do I need to have the Crank polished?
2. How to I determine which size of Acl bearings to use?
3. What services should I have the shop do?
You should have a shop clean and check specs on the block/crank. find a good shop and let them advise you on the condition of your motor. they will be able to tell you what size bearings you need. They will also tell you what kind of rings you need etc... maybe a hone. you should read the path to power thread. you're forgetting be oil pump arp studs bolts etc... you have some more research to do! stock pistons outter limit is 300. make sure you have a coolant reroute too. I could go on. I could be wrong but it would seem you have a lot more reading to do.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:54 AM   #3
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I've been lurking up and down this forum and i've found quite a bit of info. The BE oil pump I thought was for cars that see alot of track use? It will be quite a while until I hit 300hp as my current turbo/ fuel setup wouldn't allow it.

Trying to get out of my old 1.6 that is burning oil and into the 1.8 with more Torque.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:57 AM   #4
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Any engine over about 250 HP should really get the BE oil pump. Definitely 300+. You don't need to see track use to kill them; at those power levels the gears in the OEM oil pump eventually fail from the shock loads.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:01 AM   #5
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And the budget grows... wow. I already was bracing for impact to my colon for the price of the build.
Quote:
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Any engine over about 250 HP should really get the BE oil pump. Definitely 300+. You don't need to see track use to kill them; at those power levels the gears in the OEM oil pump eventually fail from the shock loads.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:54 AM   #6
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Save money by not painting it. Paint won't make it faster.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:34 AM   #7
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Paint is cheap, but if you are going to paint it, paint it something bight that is not the color of any engine fluids so that its easier to spot leaks. Otherwise I have nothing else to contribute, I just handed money to trackspeed and at some point they're going to give me an engine.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubenpdon View Post
Questions are:

1. Do I need to have the Crank polished?
2. How to I determine which size of Acl bearings to use?
3. What services should I have the shop do?
1. No
2. Plastigauge
3. The machine shop should do the bore/hone on the block, if you're building the motor definitely spring for forged pistons.

Start reading about block assembly now otherwise the machine shop will be doing that for you too.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #9
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With oil pump and pistons I'm looking at another $700 above my budget. I know I will do it at some point, but not now. Where should I draw the money line with this build?

Options:

1. Buy rods, bearings and gaskets, shoot for 260hp on this current build, get out of my smokey 1.6 and once I hit 250-260 then I can save up a bit and buy the rest of the internals and finish the build.

2. I can put my 1.8 in and just replace timing belt, water pump, gaskets.

3. I can leave my smokey 1.6 and wait 6m to a year to get some more money to do the whole build.

4. I can try to fix my 1.6 (probably oil piston rings) and spend more money on other things I need, Roll Bar, Poly bushings, etc.

My 1.6 has power still, but smokey. Already replaced the valve stem seals and still smoking.... :/
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubenpdon View Post
Here are my parts I'm assembling

1. Egay Rods <<<<<< Should have rod bolts in them

2. Stock Pistons <<<<< Stock how? style? size?

3. New Piston Rings <<<< good thing to do on a rebuild

4. Complete engine seal kit, mostly fel-pro <<< fel-pro is a good brand

5. SuperTech valve stem seals <<<< you can get vition blue seals cheaper than from ST

6. Acl Race bearing set <<<<< Not the best choice of bearing for an engine that will mainly see street use.

7. Arp Rod, head and Main bolts<<<, New rods shold have good bolts in them from the start. Head studs are good, mains may need a tad of extra work.

8. Fel-pro Head gasket
9. New Timing belt, Water pump

Don't have money to spend on $400 pistons as I'm going to doing a diy Satin black paint job on it while the engine is out.

Questions are:

1. Do I need to have the Crank polished? <<<<<No, but it would be a good idea to have it checked and spec'ed.

2. How to I determine which size of Acl bearings to use?<<<< That will depend on how the crank checked out.

3. What services should I have the shop do? <<<<<< That's a loaded question, that will depend on budget, and shop staff, and shop equipment.
Crank
*Clean and mic, polish if needed.
*Have the oil galley ***** removed.
Gunk builds up in the dead part of the oil galley between the rod bearing oil galley and the ball.

Block
*Clean and inspect
*Cylinders checked for wear, taper and barreling. hone or bore/hone as needed.
*Install ARP main studs, and check line bore, Align hone if needed.
* Inspect head gasket surface for warp and any imperfections that would compromise the gasket for sealing. Pitting, fire ring gouges, ect

Have rotating assembly balanced, makes for a smoother running engine, and less bearing wear.
If cost is a factor, have rods and pistons weight matched to .2g High/low

Head work.... at a minimum have the surface checked for warp and proper surface finish. But you can spend a bundle on getting a head built.


Now some of you may say.. "He works at a machine shop, He is trying to get us to spend money we do not need to."

No I am trying to help you with your build, by pointing to things I have found out to be issues over the years.

I found a crack in a crank, this engine was less than 2000 miles on the rebuild.
Killed the center main bearing, this guy learned the hard way.
Build stage 2. Lets tear some s**t up!-img_1584.jpg

Now this crank is designed the same as the BP 1.8 crank, oil galley in the main, and one in the rod, with an intersecting galley to connect the two, plugged off by a ball.

See the built up crud behind the ball?
Now add solvents, a soak tank or spray cabinet, that chemical will keep breaking down the crud, after you call the crank clean, so the oil picks it up and washes the crud right into the rod bearings.
Build stage 2. Lets tear some s**t up!-img_1506.jpg
I pushed this much crud out of one rod throw.
Build stage 2. Lets tear some s**t up!-img_1509.jpg

This short block was just shipped to a customer, for a 500hp build. Now it is at my shop to have the block decked.
This is where the fire ring of the HG has dug into the cast iron block. it can compromise the sealing of the gasket.
Build stage 2. Lets tear some s**t up!-img_1864.jpg

Last edited by BogusSVO; 02-07-2013 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubenpdon View Post
1. Do I need to have the Crank polished?
2. How to I determine which size of Acl bearings to use?
3. What services should I have the shop do?
1. It's a damn good idea and should cost next to nothing to have done

2. If the crank is in good shape, you can use standard size bearings, but use Plastigage or real measuring tools to confirm clearances when you do the assembly.

3. At a minimum, they should hot tank the block, bore/hone, and line-hone the main caps with the ARP studs installed, and deck the block if the HG fire ring has etched it (sometimes it happens, sometimes you can avoid it).
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:36 AM   #12
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It kind of depends on how much you mind pulling the engine and tearing it apart. Me, I would do it once, so I would wait and do everything and build the motor once, right. But if you have more free time, Option 1 seems reasonable.

There is always the possibility of getting into the motor and learning things that will cost you money. Unavoidable.
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