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Old 05-30-2012, 09:05 PM   #1
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Default Car cranks but doesn't start

I'm not sure if this is the right section so mods feel free to move it if needed .

I've been searching for the last week or 3 and still can't figure out my problem . I seem to be getting spark at the right time and fuel is pumping (not sure if i'm getting enough pressure but ) .

I've run all the basics , everything that should be getting power IS and according to the Haynes manual in the right amounts . I've gone as far as swapping relays and fuses . I made sure my battery is fully charged and i have known good gas in the tank . Only thing that has seemed to change is the fact now when the pump kicks in it doesn't build pressure in the tank . It used to let out a small hiss when i open the cap . I thought i might of had the hoses crossed on the valve that was near the charcoal canister so i swapped them and still nothing . Could a bad gas cap not allow the tank to build pressure thus not be able to force fuel up or does the pump it self do this when fuel is needed . I know the tank builds back pressure from the return line but does this aid in getting the fuel up front .

Guys i really need some help here .

The only things removed from the car are :
ABS
Power steering (manual rack)
Airbags (completely removed all wires and sensors from harness)
A/C (all large components removed)
Brake booster (went to manual brakes)

Out of all that i can't see anything that could cause the car not to start .
The only code i keep getting is a Code #25 i've gone as far as pulling off that valve and capping the vacuum lines to see if it would change anything , It didn't .
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:16 PM   #2
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I ran for years without a gas cap. Doubt that is your issue.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:35 PM   #3
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Another thing is if i jump grd&f/p i can hear what sounds like water flowing in the engine bay . It sounds like its coming from the fuel rail . The last thing i did before leaving the garage was to test my CAS and i'm getting 0v,12v,5v,5v which is normal .

I guess the only thing i can think of is either my fuel pump is taking a crap or my ECU has already but would that allow the coils to fire and all sensors to read correct .
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:33 PM   #4
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Jumped timing?
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by flounder View Post
Jumped timing?
I have thought this could of been the problem ,but i haven't touched it nor can i think of how this could of happened .

Small up date of sorts . Car now has fuel pressure don't ask me how because i have no clue . I went into the garage last night to grab something and just happened to grab the lines in the bay and they felt hard . So i twisted the gas cap and it let out a small hiss . I then just to make sure i had enough pressure put a clam around the return line to increase pressure and still nothing .

So just to clear the cylinders i pulled all plugs ,going to double check i have spark . One question is even if i lose spark on 1 cylinder shouldn't the car start . It would run like crap ,I'm 100% sure i have spark on #1 but i'll be cranking /checking all of them for a second time .

Any other ideas will be tried this weekend .Again my only code is #25
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:55 PM   #6
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Ok i have this brown /white wire under the dash that isn't connected to anything . Its not the clutch switch wire its another brown white wire . It looks to of been cut maybe for an alarm . I need to trace this wire to find it a home but i have no clue which way to look . Right now its above the clutch switch but its a thicker wire .

Any know what this is .
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venice View Post
I have thought this could of been the problem ,but i haven't touched it nor can i think of how this could of happened .

Small up date of sorts . Car now has fuel pressure don't ask me how because i have no clue . I went into the garage last night to grab something and just happened to grab the lines in the bay and they felt hard . So i twisted the gas cap and it let out a small hiss . I then just to make sure i had enough pressure put a clam around the return line to increase pressure and still nothing . So just to clear the cylinders i pulled all plugs ,going to double check i have spark . One question is even if i lose spark on 1 cylinder shouldn't the car start . It would run like crap ,I'm 100% sure i have spark on #1 but i'll be cranking /checking all of them for a second time .

Any other ideas will be tried this weekend .Again my only code is #25
Are you for real? The fuel lines are hard regardless, and the temperature difference in/out the tank is causing the hiss you're hearing.

Why don't you get in the car, in a quiet place, and listen for it to prime with key on? Check spark with a five dollar spark tester from harbor freight or a test light to ground while someone is cranking it.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flounder View Post
Are you for real? The fuel lines are hard regardless, and the temperature difference in/out the tank is causing the hiss you're hearing.

Why don't you get in the car, in a quiet place, and listen for it to prime with key on? Check spark with a five dollar spark tester from harbor freight or a test light to ground while someone is cranking it.
Yes i'm serious it happen over night , wtf you never heard of a ghost. I can't explain how it happen i have no clue . If your rubber lines are hard you should change them because rubber shouldn't be hard to the touch unless there is pressure behind it . In my case the lines were soft(easy to pinch with my hands) now on the other hand they are firm . Can i explain that no but someone on another forum said the gurgling sound was my fuel rail filling up .That would explain why it went from soft to hard. But over night i can't .
Oh and i do for sure 100% have spark on all 4
My new problem is this one wire that might of been cut for an alarm system . Its brown /white and is thicker then then on on the clutch switch . Someone (not me ) put a spade connector on it so it was at one time put into something .I know i'm asking alot but if someone has has /could get a picture or tell me where this wire might go. In my harness it comes out of one of the relays that are in the engine bay (1of 3 on the driver side) . I've looked at these and it looks like 2 are for lights and one is for the horn unless i have the wrong relays in mind Now i don't know if this has anything to do with my problem but i just found it messing with the wires under the dash .
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:14 AM   #9
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things that will prevent your car from starting

- clutch switch/wiring/etc. there are 2 switches, the one with HUEG wires is the starter interlock
- no CAS signal. It could be snapped timing belt, faulty cas wiring, dead cas, whatever
- no MAF signal. same as above

I can't think of anything else that you didn't check.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
things that will prevent your car from starting

- clutch switch/wiring/etc. there are 2 switches, the one with HUEG wires is the starter interlock
- no CAS signal. It could be snapped timing belt, faulty cas wiring, dead cas, whatever
- no MAF signal. same as above


I can't think of anything else that you didn't check.
The bold has been checked and is not the cause .

The clutch switch well if the wire that i think is what i found (brn/wht) does in fact come from it then that would explain it . I'm going to pull the dash because i can trace the wire from one of the relays ( i believe were under the hood on driver side) to where a spade connector goes . Now keep in mind this isn't the OG harness it was a replacement because i cut to many wires in the other one . I have the dash about half way out right now i'll get it out tomorrow morning and try to find the other end .
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:33 AM   #11
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Did your car run before you removed all of those systems?
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:39 AM   #12
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You mean did it run before i screwed with the wiring then trying to fix it brought another harness instead of trying to splice in the wires i cut that i wasn't supposed to . Yes i'm starting to think if this harness was 100% perfect it would start . I've already found 1 wire that was cut from the ignition and had to use a crimp connector to fix that so to find this one isn't a surprise its finding what it goes to that is .
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:46 AM   #13
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http://y8spec.com/wiring/wiring.html
heres the wiring diagrams. have fun
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:02 AM   #14
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all i have to say is that yu r a fail bitch. even my car starts. you lose
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Old 06-02-2012, 06:31 AM   #15
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Yeah, you might want to start with the wiring you screwed around with. and Fyi the brn/white wire is for the clutch switch and it only goes from the ecu to the switch, no tracing necessary. If it isnt cut where you can see it, check for continuity with a DVOM between the ecu connector and the clutch switch connector.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:00 AM   #16
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soviet thanks for the line i've tried to follow the one in the Haynes manual it sucks .

faeflora you suck thanks for the help.

Tyler looks like it isn't the clutch switch because i can see if unless its cut under this one spot of tape .


Oh and i haven't screwed with this harness . All i have done is pull the old tape and plastic wrapping off to make it easier to run the wires . Someone BEFORE ME has done the screwing with it . I'm trying to track down there screw ups .

Looks like the wire goes to the horn . I tried to ground it and the horn beeps . Now i need to trace it back to where it was or from where they cut it to make sure my horn works .
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:36 PM   #17
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Well just got finished pulling the harness apart and looking for broke/lose/cut wires and there isn't any . So i wire tied the harness back together just incase i need to dig into it later (no more tape). Seems as if there is a ghost in the wiring somewhere .

I'm going to pick up some starter fluid spray either today or tomorrow and see if that will give me some sign of life in the motor . I'm hoping it was just a lose plug or something i missed the 1st time . I'm going to double check the grounds making sure there clean but idk .
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:21 PM   #18
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Starter fluid didn't work so my last guess is going to be some how i jumped timing . Is there a write up on how to check timing on a car with the Toyota COPs . Seeing as i don't have a plug wire to connect to would i just use the signal wire to do this or do i need a special timing light.
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:46 AM   #19
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Are your injectors firing? If you don't have noid lights just pull the plugs and turn the engine over, if they are firing you should see fuel mist shoot out of the plug holes. NOTE: don't do this for long or you will wash the cylinder walls, also open flames/sparks are a bad idea.

If you don't see fuel mist shooting out of the holes, turn your key to the on position and check the Wht/Red wire on a injector connector, you should get 12v.

Code #25 is for Pressure Regulator Control solenoid valve- the one you capped the lines on, it has a Wht/Red power wire and Yel/Grn ecu switched ground wire- Just so we are on the same page.
This being bad will not cause the car to not start (see attachment, ignore that it's for a millenia, they use the same part) But i think that is how the ecu would perceive a bad FPR. It would just see the the problem as a Hard start (as if the solenoid were bad) not a No start.
If it were my car I would put my money on FPR
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:45 AM   #20
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We are on the same page the PRC valve is the only code that keeps being thrown and my understanding is the same its only used in hot starts to increase the fuel pressure to cool down the fuel .
I have fuel because i can smell it coming out of the intake and the tops of the pistons are wet as well as the plugs . I even went a step further and put a hose clamp on the return line to increase the pressure (thinking it just might not of been enough) and nothing .

The basics say if you have
Spark -checked by pulling each one out and grounding
Fuel - pistons / plugs wet & smell of fuel coming from the intake
Air- I can hold the pedal slightly open and get small puffs .

As you can see i have the basics covered i'm only throwing one code for something that at this time isn't a issue cause the car /engine isn't hot .
I tried to think back to when i 1st did the tuck to see if anything fell into the belt and i did drop a bunch of wire connectors that went everywhere . Its a good chance something fell down to the crank pulley and caused the belt to jump a couple teeth . This is the last thing i can think of unless the car is haunted .
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