Criticize my idiotcracy
10-26-2017, 10:14 AM
#1
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Built vvt/holset?
I figured I'd post this idea first here to get a sanity check from the pros and see what everyone things about this set up.
From what I've been able to scrap up in threads over the last few days has told me that a couple people here run holset turbos and even more people are curious about them. I'm curious to see how one of those (hy35w to be exact) would do on a built vvt motor.
Here's the plan so far:
Holset hy35w (China oem sized replacement)
95 block (honed for sure, deck surfaces as well? has around 100k on it)
stock 2003 vvt head
supertech 8.6:1's
ebay rods with arp hardware
arp head studs
New timing belt and water pump (GMB)
Damper might not be put on in the very beginning but I am well aware of it's necessity.
Mustang gt500 610cc's
tacotaco t3
Stock vvt pump with BE forged gears
Toyota cops (LS or bust I know)
The only thing that I'm concerned with is the fact that not all china turbo's are exactly accurate with the measurements listed online. I'm slightly concerned that the turbo will just be too big overall and I'll need to step down to an hw30 or even something like an hw25/27. My transmission issue is the other thing that I can think about, I know a 6 speed is certain in the future but I have a couple 5 speeds to think about it. Lets say power goals are 320 whp and budget is max 3-4k, the parts ring up far under that but I understand how these things go.
Any issues that might occur with this set up?
From what I've been able to scrap up in threads over the last few days has told me that a couple people here run holset turbos and even more people are curious about them. I'm curious to see how one of those (hy35w to be exact) would do on a built vvt motor.
Here's the plan so far:
Holset hy35w (China oem sized replacement)
95 block (honed for sure, deck surfaces as well? has around 100k on it)
stock 2003 vvt head
supertech 8.6:1's
ebay rods with arp hardware
arp head studs
New timing belt and water pump (GMB)
Damper might not be put on in the very beginning but I am well aware of it's necessity.
Mustang gt500 610cc's
tacotaco t3
Stock vvt pump with BE forged gears
Toyota cops (LS or bust I know)
The only thing that I'm concerned with is the fact that not all china turbo's are exactly accurate with the measurements listed online. I'm slightly concerned that the turbo will just be too big overall and I'll need to step down to an hw30 or even something like an hw25/27. My transmission issue is the other thing that I can think about, I know a 6 speed is certain in the future but I have a couple 5 speeds to think about it. Lets say power goals are 320 whp and budget is max 3-4k, the parts ring up far under that but I understand how these things go.
Any issues that might occur with this set up?
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10-26-2017, 02:27 PM
#2
whats' the point in going with holset size if you're gonna get china knockoff anyway?
the only reason people use holset is cause its a good name brand, which can also be found cheap. going china defeats that and at that point you can just buy whatever t3 you want.
I also don't understand the logic behind a built engine and then going with a tacotaco manifold and other poverty parts. Maybe decide which direction you wanna go: proper built or poverty build. Trying to split the difference usually wastes more money than either
the only reason people use holset is cause its a good name brand, which can also be found cheap. going china defeats that and at that point you can just buy whatever t3 you want.
I also don't understand the logic behind a built engine and then going with a tacotaco manifold and other poverty parts. Maybe decide which direction you wanna go: proper built or poverty build. Trying to split the difference usually wastes more money than either
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10-26-2017, 06:49 PM
#3
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whats' the point in going with holset size if you're gonna get china knockoff anyway?
the only reason people use holset is cause its a good name brand, which can also be found cheap. going china defeats that and at that point you can just buy whatever t3 you want.
I also don't understand the logic behind a built engine and then going with a tacotaco manifold and other poverty parts. Maybe decide which direction you wanna go: proper built or poverty build. Trying to split the difference usually wastes more money than either
the only reason people use holset is cause its a good name brand, which can also be found cheap. going china defeats that and at that point you can just buy whatever t3 you want.
I also don't understand the logic behind a built engine and then going with a tacotaco manifold and other poverty parts. Maybe decide which direction you wanna go: proper built or poverty build. Trying to split the difference usually wastes more money than either
Pat has taken this manifold to 300hp, I'm curious to see how far it can go. I've got over 10,000 miles and 3 autox days on it so far without issue. Also from what I've read in the dodge community is that the Chinese turbos can be good or bad, so fingers crossed it's a good one.
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10-26-2017, 09:17 PM
#4
Ok I guess.
But forget about "peak power" when comparing quality parts with janky parts.
You can take that manifold to 300, 500, probably even 800. That's not why you should ever buy a part like that. a properly flowing mani will make a world of difference, and so will a properly sized turbo. Pat chooses to do things the hard way, for the EXACT purpose of doing it the hard way. He's always done that, and we love him for it. But99% of the members here shouldn't do the same. The 1% that should, are just as crazy as pat and would probably succeed. You'd be shocked at the amount of work, time, and money he's put into his car.
but if you want to experiment with cheap bolt ons on a properly built block, I guess I see nothing wrong with that.
But forget about "peak power" when comparing quality parts with janky parts.
You can take that manifold to 300, 500, probably even 800. That's not why you should ever buy a part like that. a properly flowing mani will make a world of difference, and so will a properly sized turbo. Pat chooses to do things the hard way, for the EXACT purpose of doing it the hard way. He's always done that, and we love him for it. But99% of the members here shouldn't do the same. The 1% that should, are just as crazy as pat and would probably succeed. You'd be shocked at the amount of work, time, and money he's put into his car.
but if you want to experiment with cheap bolt ons on a properly built block, I guess I see nothing wrong with that.
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10-26-2017, 10:58 PM
#5
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 452
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Ok I guess.
But forget about "peak power" when comparing quality parts with janky parts.
You can take that manifold to 300, 500, probably even 800. That's not why you should ever buy a part like that. a properly flowing mani will make a world of difference, and so will a properly sized turbo. Pat chooses to do things the hard way, for the EXACT purpose of doing it the hard way. He's always done that, and we love him for it. But99% of the members here shouldn't do the same. The 1% that should, are just as crazy as pat and would probably succeed. You'd be shocked at the amount of work, time, and money he's put into his car.
but if you want to experiment with cheap bolt ons on a properly built block, I guess I see nothing wrong with that.
But forget about "peak power" when comparing quality parts with janky parts.
You can take that manifold to 300, 500, probably even 800. That's not why you should ever buy a part like that. a properly flowing mani will make a world of difference, and so will a properly sized turbo. Pat chooses to do things the hard way, for the EXACT purpose of doing it the hard way. He's always done that, and we love him for it. But99% of the members here shouldn't do the same. The 1% that should, are just as crazy as pat and would probably succeed. You'd be shocked at the amount of work, time, and money he's put into his car.
but if you want to experiment with cheap bolt ons on a properly built block, I guess I see nothing wrong with that.
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10-27-2017, 08:36 AM
#7
Retired Mech Design Engr
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One of the hardest things on this site, or perhaps in life in general, is to ask for honest opinions, receive them, and then respond accordingly; with logic, not emotion.
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10-31-2017, 05:56 AM
#10
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Auckland, NZ
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Agreed with above re cost estimates.....and also 18 psi (2 times in one week, **** I really have turned a corner!) choose whatever manifold your heart sets on but at least stick to decent turbo and Trackspeed inconel mounting hardware.
Take a look at the Kraken manifold for a cheaper option than trackspeeds.
Take a look at the Kraken manifold for a cheaper option than trackspeeds.
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11-28-2017, 02:23 PM
#11
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Denver, CO
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Just noticed this while reading through your build list and thought I'd mention it-
My brother's a machinist and he's noticed a trend with Chevy H-beam ebay rods. They bore the big end without properly torquing on the end caps, so when you do torque them they go out-of-round. The material seems to be of decent quality, so it's still cheaper to buy an ebay set and re-bore the big ends, but definitely torque on the rod caps and check the roundness before assembling.
Good luck with the build!
-Rob
My brother's a machinist and he's noticed a trend with Chevy H-beam ebay rods. They bore the big end without properly torquing on the end caps, so when you do torque them they go out-of-round. The material seems to be of decent quality, so it's still cheaper to buy an ebay set and re-bore the big ends, but definitely torque on the rod caps and check the roundness before assembling.
Good luck with the build!
-Rob
Last edited by robster2000; 11-28-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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12-05-2017, 12:14 PM
#13
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Block, rods, pistons, and crank are at the machine shop. I've also switched to a Briggs motorsport log style manifold. Still on the fence if I want to run the Chinese holset or the mk turbo t3.
The only big ticket items left are an ati damper, ms3x, and 6 speed
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