Is E85 with AFR a good idea?
Hi guys
Is anyone here running E85? I currently run LINK ECU, 550cc, Walbro 190HP, M-tune dual feed fuel rail and I made 287whp on 91 pump gas (99 head, 94 bottom end). Lately I'm thinking of having the car tuned on E85 but I'm afraid that the 550cc might not be adequate for the increased amount of fuel. Do you think that would be the case? I did an online search and some people are using an adjustable fuel regulator to provide the ~30% fuel demand by increasing the fuel pressure. Similarly they mentioned that you can reduce the pressure back to normal levels and use regular gas (if you find yourself in a situation where you can't find E85). Do you see any major issues with running AFPR with LINK and 550s? Do you have any good AFRP to suggest? Also I noticed that most turbo cars can see an increase of almost 50% when tuned properly on E85. Since I'm running on stock internals I'll probably tune the car for low end torque and moderate HP levels - maybe limiting the power at 300-330whp. What do you think it's the hp limit on for stock rods and how much for stock pistons? Thanks Chris |
What you gain in E85 you will loose if you keep the injectors, you"ll need 850's to see a gain. then expect about 10% more power, with a good tune.
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Im pretty sure Rushin' is running E85
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Hearing your on a stock bottom end, hasn't it been proven many times that high 200's is about all the abuse stock rods want to take? A good tune is worth lots in keeping away detonation, and your ring lands, but true force {Torque} against weak rods will end up ugly. By all means, push the envelope, but I just see your engine succumbing to the weakest link in your bottom end. Seems to be the norm here. bend em, before you can save em.
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e85 is a fuckin joke man
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wow, another dumb newbie question!! try the damn search!! this HAS been covered already!!
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expect to see a 30% raise in fuel demands with e85. Ive tuned a few dsms running ECMlink and e85 with large injectors in the upper 11's on the wideband. You can run it, but just be sure that your fueling hardware can support the increase in fuel demand.
But like other have stated, the stock rods can be a hindrance with excessive cylinder pressures, along with other issues such as the rubber fuel linings sprouting leaks, etc... Anyone else want to chime in? I would love to run e85 in my miata but ive got a lot of other things to purchase before i splurge on a FMU. Nomie |
Originally Posted by jacob300zx
(Post 483436)
What you gain in E85 you will loose if you keep the injectors, you"ll need 850's to see a gain. then expect about 10% more power, with a good tune.
Originally Posted by Sam Amporful
(Post 483470)
Im pretty sure Rushin' is running E85
Originally Posted by jedduh01
(Post 483483)
Hearing your on a stock bottom end, hasn't it been proven many times that high 200's is about all the abuse stock rods want to take? A good tune is worth lots in keeping away detonation, and your ring lands, but true force {Torque} against weak rods will end up ugly. By all means, push the envelope, but I just see your engine succumbing to the weakest link in your bottom end. Seems to be the norm here. bend em, before you can save em.
Originally Posted by magnamx-5
(Post 483525)
e85 is a fuckin joke man
Originally Posted by NoMiEzMX-5
(Post 483539)
expect to see a 30% raise in fuel demands with e85. Ive tuned a few dsms running ECMlink and e85 with large injectors in the upper 11's on the wideband. You can run it, but just be sure that your fueling hardware can support the increase in fuel demand.
But like other have stated, the stock rods can be a hindrance with excessive cylinder pressures, along with other issues such as the rubber fuel linings sprouting leaks, etc... Anyone else want to chime in? I would love to run e85 in my miata but ive got a lot of other things to purchase before i splurge on a FMU. Nomie |
1 Attachment(s)
By the way I'm officially on E85 for the last few days... I'll tune the car with the V-mount and the E85 this Saturday and hopefully I'll get better results. I'm saying hopefully because the turbo (GT 2560) is already maxed out so I'm not expecting anything huge in max power, but maybe better spool up and torque.
I ended up getting the Injector Dynamics 1000cc/min from www.miataroadster.com (everything came with the right adapters for plug'n'play installation) and I'll probably also swap my beloved Walbro 190 HP for a 255 HP. Attachment 201914 |
Originally Posted by Max_Power
(Post 493621)
I ended up getting the Injector Dynamics 1000cc/min from MiataRoadster...STAY TUNED (everything came with the right adapters for plug'n'play installation)......
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Originally Posted by JayL
(Post 493640)
What did the injectors end up costing you and any reason why you didn't go directly through T1?
I got plugnplay clips which were expensive - so the totally was a whooping $500 (I think $505 or something). You can ask Bill but I think w/o the plugnplay plugs they should be around $400 |
Originally Posted by Max_Power
(Post 493621)
By the way I'm officially on E85 for the last few days... I'll tune the car with the V-mount and the E85 this Saturday and hopefully I'll get better results. I'm saying hopefully because the turbo (GT 2560) is already maxed out so I'm not expecting anything huge in max power, but maybe better spool up and torque.
I ended up getting the Injector Dynamics 1000cc/min from MiataRoadster...STAY TUNED (everything came with the right adapters for plug'n'play installation) and I'll probably also swap my beloved Walbro 190 HP for a 255 HP. |
Originally Posted by webby459
(Post 493667)
What else can you tell us about your build? Define maxing out the 2560....
I have one of the first prototypes of the new Begi Turbo IM and later on we realized that there was a boost leak from the area close to the TB - which I had it welded shut. I'm not sure if the above event had to do something with the max PSI that we were looking at - but at the Dyno session the turbo couldn't flow more than 15.7 psi. If I had a turbo that could go higher I would expect higher HP increase since I would be able to increase the boost due to the better qualities of the E85 vs 91 pump gas. Very briefly my built consists of 94 bottom end 122K miles 99 head with a valve job (not oversized) Begi Turbo intake manifold Begi cast turbo manifold Begi 3" separated gas DP 3" Cat less short exhaust TDR IC w modified piping -> now in a V-mount set up LINK ECU RC 550cc-> now ID 1000cc Walbro 190 HP-> Soon to be 255 HP PWR Race rad-> Now stock Mazda Rad for lightness Oil cooler hopefully to be installed before the Dyno session |
I will be damn close to your setup when my winter build is done, except I won't have vmount, I'll have a tubular mani and megasquirt. Oh, and I'll be all forged, not sure if yours is or not. Please report back after your dyno day, including injector duty cycles. You should be able to go after some very aggressive ignition mapping in the boost building cells, so your spool should be brilliant (I hope).
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Originally Posted by webby459
(Post 493717)
I will be damn close to your setup when my winter build is done, except I won't have vmount, I'll have a tubular mani and megasquirt. Oh, and I'll be all forged, not sure if yours is or not. Please report back after your dyno day, including injector duty cycles. You should be able to go after some very aggressive ignition mapping in the boost building cells, so your spool should be brilliant (I hope).
My engine is on stock internals so I'm walking on thin ice - some people advice to get a second block and started building it but probably I'll wait until I destroy this engine. Here are the old Dyno results Attachment 201910 |
4 Attachment(s)
This:
Attachment 201901 Plus this: Attachment 201902 = this: Attachment 201903 Attachment 201904 You must not be driving your car hard enough for the stock rods to hold up. |
Originally Posted by thesnowboarder
(Post 493970)
This:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...r/IMG_0051.jpg Plus this: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...odayslip-1.jpg = this: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...r/CRW_9834.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...IMG_0336-1.jpg You must not be driving your car hard enough for the stock rods to hold up. |
Max Power, you are definitely on or over the hairy edge on the stock internals, maybe you want to turn the boost down after you do the tune?
What did you end up running for base fuel pressure? What afpr did you end up with? How do the ID 1000s idle? Did you do a before and after dyno with the Begi IM? I'll be running the stock '00 IM for a while, probably in for massive head and IM rework NEXT year, this year's build is killing me financially. Thanks for the info. |
Originally Posted by webby459
(Post 494337)
Max Power, you are definitely on or over the hairy edge on the stock internals, maybe you want to turn the boost down after you do the tune?
What did you end up running for base fuel pressure? What afpr did you end up with? How do the ID 1000s idle? Did you do a before and after dyno with the Begi IM? I'll be running the stock '00 IM for a while, probably in for massive head and IM rework NEXT year, this year's build is killing me financially. Thanks for the info. I agree that I'm probably above the limit... so I'll be very happy if the car doesn't explode at the dyno :crx: I talked to FM regarding the reliability of the stock internals and the best AFPR and the answer that I got was: 1) If the tune is really good and there is no detonation the internals won't have a problem - the knock is what makes the rods break... 2) It's better not to go with a band-aid solution (AFPR) and to go with bigger injectors. That's what I did, I got the 1000cc injectors which should flow enough fuel with the stock FPR (so no AFPR for me at this time). |
Just came back from the dyno, the boost control was malfunctioning but at the end we set the boost manually at 17psi and with a little bit of tuning got 306 at the wheels.
Does anyone have a dynapack s/w that can read abg files? I have an older dynapack version so I can only read abf files :crx: so now I can't see the graph... |
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