Efficient Engine Bolt-ons
 

Hi guys,

I inherited my dad's 1999 NB Miata a little over a year ago when he passed away. We gave it a very good tune up and I decided to make it a track car that I could participate in Solo 1 events here in Puerto Rico. We are using NASA based rules or a very similar version of them here. I want to keep the car in E category since going up to D I will be competing against cars that are way faster than the Miata in the straight and the track here is basically 2 straights. I will post the rules but they are in Spanish, but I think some things are not that hard to understand. With the things I have and the ones I'm planning on getting I have 25 points from the 19 that I'm targeting to be able to stay en E. I find this car super fun and I'm in the lap times I was shooting to be with a car that only had a front swaybar and 15x8 wheels. Now I want to maximize it with in the rules.

This are the things I have. Not all are installed in the car or are in my wish list.

• Racing beat front swaybar
• Racing Beat Swaybar Brace kit
• Flying Miata Front end Links
• XIDA Race Coilovers (not installed yet)
• Racing Beat Power Pulse Muffler
• Custom Exhaust 2 1/4'
• Stage 3 Flyin’ Miata Airflow Kit
• Rollbar
• DeatschWerks 255 LPH Fuel Pump
• Goodridge Braided Brake lines
• Goodridge Braided Clutch line
• LRB Speed Miata Aluminum Aero Undertray
• LRB Speed Miata Aluminum Front Sides
• Enkei RPF1 Gold Wheels 15x8
• Green drop in filter
• Garage Star Radiator Cooling Panel
• European/JDM intake manifold (on wishlist)
• Garage Star Alternator Pulley (not installed yet)
• Garage Star Water Pump Pulley (not installed yet)
• Jackson Racing 4-2-1 header (not installed yet)
• 5X Racing Adjustable Timing Wheel (not installed yet)
• Final Drive (on wishlist)
• BP5a exhaust cam out of a 2004-05 Mazdaspeed Miata (on wishlist)

My purpose of opening this thread, and I apologize for doing it incorrectly, was to see from your experience what should I eliminate or add to be able to stay in the category I want to run.

I have a tire sponsor giving me Nankang tires and will be using the AR-1 size 225/45/15 which are 80 tread wear.

One of the things I've been told repeatedly is that these cars do not produce power no matter what you do to them. My plan is not to open the engine and do what ever is worth doing on the outside. One of the things I've been told is to use the 99-00 exhaust cam in the intake side and also i have written down to use the 04-05 MSM intake cam.

I read that I should put the filter in the cold side of the engine but not sure on how to do it with the flow meter.

I don't have much mechanical skills but I have a person who installs the parts for my other race cars and he does what it's difficult for me to do. His knowledge is not in Miata. The little knowledge I have is because I read and ask a lot about the car I'm driving and write everything down.

I don't have a big budget but prefer to wait a little more and buy the right part.

I'm new to forums so if I missed any information I should have written down here please let me know.

First we dont spoon feed much info here. We expect you to search for your answers. But the best thing you could do is get a megasquirt ecu.

READ THE BELOW THREAD. The whole thing beginning to end. I copied and pasted a key point in the thread that you already failed at.

https://www.miataturbo.net/meet-gree...-sticky-35885/

SEARCH
Why in the hell would you start a thread, ask a question, come back several times over the next couple hours or days, and learn the exact same information you could have learned by simply looking up the info for yourself in about 3 seconds. What is your time worth? When you go to the magazine store, do you walk straight up to the guy at the counter and ask him if they carry Asian Midgets Monthly? NO, you go over to the fetish rack and look for yourself. Why? Embarrassed? NO, because you want to get the hell out before anybody you know spots you. Do the same thing here, don’t waste your time or ours… SEARCH! I promise that in the 20year history of Miata’s, you’re not the only guy who has had the question you’re thinking about… it’s virtually impossible.

So, what’s a SEARCH? Vbulletin (the forum software) has a really good SEARCH engine built into it. It’s just like Google except it only works inside the forum. It’s also a little dumber in some ways than Google. SEARCHing is an art-form, just like people pride themselves on their Google’ing, you must master the SEARCH, or people will let you know in short order that your skillz are not up to par.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS do an ADVANCED SEARCH. If you were to type clutch into a regular SEARCH, every single time that word appeared in any thread, it would get returned. Even if the thread was about a guy talking about a 3 pointer with 2 seconds left… “a clutch jump-shot”. You want to do TITLE SEARCHES, and limit those searches to specific forums. Just look at the ADVANCED SEARCH menu, and tailor the software to return quality threads. Sometimes no matter what you do, there are 250 threads returned and none of them seem relevant…

So now you need to consider if you’re asking the right SEARCH keyword. Some people just don’t know how to title their threads, as follows:
My car is slow, what do I do?
I’m looking for more power?
It’s like there’s an anchor hooked to my bumper.
Cheap modifications for some extra oomph?
A little extra horsepower would be nice.
And I thought my daughters’ Power Wheels Barbie Jeep was slow off the line!

Those threads are all pretty much about making some more horsepower… not a huge amount of power, but just a few extra ponies. The point is, the threads ARE ALL ABOUT THE EXACT SAME SUBJECT, but none of them sound the same… take this lesson on-board when SEARCHING… AND DON’T GIVE UP AND START A NEW THREAD SIMPLY BECAUSE YOUR FIRST SEARCH RETURNED NOTHING… try a few different things and remember this when titling your own threads. Guys want to get “creative” with their thread titles… it never works.


GOOGLE… Yes, GOOGLE!

The word Google has been entered into Websters: “to Google”. DEFINITION: when you want to know the answer to anything on earth about any subject of any age and in any language, no matter how technical, Google it. This applies directly in doing your homework on Miata stuff. Just like doing an Advanced SEARCH within a forum, Google has their own ADVANCED SEARCH. Are you tired of returning 490,000 hits for something? Just click on Advanced Search next to the big SEARCH button and fill in the blanks to return a more narrowed down set of links. I promise that if you Google anything related to Miata and turbo’s, about half the returns will be links to threads on this website… sometimes Google is better at searching MT.net than it’s internal search is.

WHAT’S A STICKY?
Sticky’s are located as the first few threads at the top of each forum. They say “STICKY” next to them. Before you start a thread in a new forum, be sure to read the STICKY’s. If you ask a question that was answered in a STICKY, be prepared to look like a fool. STICKY’s are important for the singular purpose of educating the new guy (YOU, MAN). The most commonly asked questions by new guys are answered in STICKY’s so the regulars and veterans don’t have to repeat themselves 20 times per week answering the same questions… “How about just a little more power?” This also keeps the veterans interested in answering GOOD QUESTIONS by new guys.

Sticky’s have the secondary purpose of keeping the forum “uncluttered”. Nobody wants 10 threads on the front-page all about the same thing… that doesn’t do anybody any good. When a moderator sees that a particular topic keeps coming up repeatedly, and it’s information that will benefit the entire forum body, it usually gets STICKY’d.



If you actually read all that welcome to the forum. Start an into thread and properly introduce yourself with pictures of your car, plans and cats.

turbocharger is a very efficient bolt on

I've heard that too. Must try that one day.

And this is why we are the best forum to be on.

You'd be correct. I'd encourage you to utilize the search function or Google's "site:" feature to search this forum and find those answers, because the only thing you're going to get in this thread is a thorough dressing down.

Thanks for sharing! Didn't know how to use the advanced search correctly.

Sorry if some one felt insulted by the questions but I'm trying to learn about the car. Everyone has different opinions and all I've heard is not to do anything to this cars because it's not worth it. So I decided to check my self. I see a lot of things for them but don't know were is a good start.

Thanks to the person who sent me the pm about the squaretop manifold. I will look for information on it. :)

Dont forget we are all hairdressers too

The forum search sucks go to google and type "miata turbo __________"

FTFY

I guess this is not the correct place for me then!

Thanks to the people that tried to help. If some one can delete this post I'll appreciate it but I haven't been disrespectful to anyone and expect the same.

:laugh: so glorious

Awesome didnt know that!

:wavey:

That was fast, and did not require a ban.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...936d26f0f2.png

this makes it easy to weed out the UBER LAZY. Thanks for helping.

Completely unrelated, but just repped for that harbor freight coupon code link in your sig. You're doing God's work.

That in which the mnet folks show up and are surprised.

im insulted that no one tried to provide link to login.php?do=logout

It's your turn in the barrel.

Sigh

I sent Glory here in the hopes of plugging her into the best Miata racer community on the web. She is a legit racer and good customer. You guys disappoint me. Yes, she should have researched a bit more an introduced herself but jeez.

Let's reset. Give her a chance to add the missing details on her project and do over. I really don't want to have to stop sending my customers here to add to the community.

The information is here, but you need to know how to fish first. Fishgivers, we are not.

How were we supposed to know this? Surely you knew what we (and yourself, with all the posts you make about signal:noise ratio and the dressings you've given noobs yourself here) expect in order to maintain the high level of forum that you consider the best racer community on the web.


I think i can find a post to copy paste in order to set this straight, however.

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...8/#post1510017

I have since been informed that fire suppression, arm restraints, and nets (both windows and interior) are also required for light duty HPDE use.

It's true. Full safety or nothing. Your life is worth it. If you can't afford to drop $20k on safety gear then you can't afford to be on the track. Roll bars...Not even once.

Yup, I agree. Hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. But instantly resorting to vulgar insults shouldn't be one of the options. Not everyone here is guilty of that of course but a little adult goes a long way.

I suggest the legacy members here self appoint themselves as mentors to point newbs to relevant threads to help them get started. Discourage other members from lashing out and tone down the vulgarity. The strength of this board is
the combined knowledge of the legacy members and info recorded here. The weakness is that is poorly indexed. This poor indexing is made more difficult because newbs don't even ask the right questions. So they don't know which search terms or how to vet the answers.

There is enough info here to fill a decent book on how to Miata. But it's like someones ADD notes scribble over several notebooks without any timeline, scattered about the house and workshop. Good luck gleaning the core data you need for your project.

Our board works very well for experienced tuners that already know enough to either search and/or ask the right questions. To all else, beware :(

We're a fickle crowd..... For obvious reasons.

I've got several saved n/a links that I'll dump into this post when find them.... Though I wonder if OP will be back?


This a very good explanation of all my build spreadsh....... Vegas is coming to GLTC?!

Most efficient bolt on for mine was a strut brace.

Brace itself gives me something to lean on when fixing shit, and the end plates stop my beer falling over.

Well I was all set to just come in and discuss the efficiency of engine mods and discuss Miatas (weird huh), oh well.

But, I'll do it anyways. We'll start with a decent N/A, assuming we start with a stock, low mileage NB1 motor, haven't dyno'd a lot of these, but I'm guessing 110whp? I'll also just pay attention to the engine. Decent clutch, suspension, brakes, fluids, radiator, and reroute should all be installed inconjunction or even before any of these mods.

RB header - $439
K&N intake - $279
full RB exhaust - $87+$147+$269
MS - $1000
tune - $1000
tomei cams - $950
head work - $500
subs/shims - $320

That's $4991 for 170hp, just over $83 per hp, or 0.012hp per dollar.

Now for forced induction, assuming the same car but for sake of simplicity, FM's kit.

FM2 kit* - $3120
FF injectors - $319
MS - $1000
tune - $1000
EBC - $58
inconel studs** - $129

That's $5626 for 240hp, just over $43 per hp, or .023hp per dollar.

*This was custom spec'd, no injectors, gauges, or boost control, but with a 3" dp, cat, and exhaust.
**Some might say unnecessary, I would disagree.

Turbo definitely looks good, but some people aren't willing to spend $5000 on a $3000 car. N/A also looks a tiny bit better if you drop the cam associated parts, closer to $80/hp and $3000 total, plus you could save another $2k and drop the MS/tune. Probably forgetting some things, like you could add a square top for either of these for a little more high end breathing, either/or should probably have a forged oil pump, and you can argue that I went into the engine for the N/A build but didn't put a forged engine build into the turbo setups, but the budgets came out similar and i was the only helpful response so fuck you!

Stick around Glory if you are interested in modding the Miata. Read a bunch, post specific questions after searching. I am not defending the behavior, but it won't take you long to realize that questions like your original pop up regularly, and the people who can actually give you good info are tired of spoonfeeding.

Pretty much every noob gets the same treatment, ignore it.

Well put

Well said.

I confess, I usually issue a caveat to the many customers I have steered here via email/phone: Search first, introduce yourself, include as much detail on your project, budget, resources, class regs... then ask a question. I skipped that tutorial and she got blasted. Lesson learned.

Don't go giving away all the secrets dude. That's some next level shit.

Hi guys,

Trying to make it right!

I inherited my dad's 1999 NB Miata a little over a year ago when he passed away. We gave it a very good tune up and I decided to make it a track car that I could participate in Solo 1 events here in Puerto Rico. We are using NASA based rules or a very similar version of them here. I want to keep the car in E category since going up to D I will be competing against cars that are way faster than the Miata in the straight and the track here is basically 2 straights. I will post the rules but they are in Spanish, but I think some things are not that hard to understand. With the things I have and the ones I'm planning on getting I have 25 points from the 19 that I'm targeting to be able to stay en E. I find this car super fun and I'm in the lap times I was shooting to be with a car that only had a front swaybar and 15x8 wheels. Now I want to maximize it with in the rules.

This are the things I have. Not all are installed in the car or are in my wish list.

• Racing beat front swaybar
• Racing Beat Swaybar Brace kit
• Flying Miata Front end Links
• XIDA Race Coilovers (not installed yet)
• Racing Beat Power Pulse Muffler
• Custom Exhaust 2 1/4'
• Stage 3 Flyin’ Miata Airflow Kit
• Rollbar
• DeatschWerks 255 LPH Fuel Pump
• Goodridge Braided Brake lines
• Goodridge Braided Clutch line
• LRB Speed Miata Aluminum Aero Undertray
• LRB Speed Miata Aluminum Front Sides
• Enkei RPF1 Gold Wheels 15x8
• Green drop in filter
• Garage Star Radiator Cooling Panel
• European/JDM intake manifold (on wishlist)
• Garage Star Alternator Pulley (not installed yet)
• Garage Star Water Pump Pulley (not installed yet)
• Jackson Racing 4-2-1 header (not installed yet)
• 5X Racing Adjustable Timing Wheel (not installed yet)
• Final Drive (on wishlist)
• BP5a exhaust cam out of a 2004-05 Mazdaspeed Miata (on wishlist)

My purpose of opening this thread, and I apologize for doing it incorrectly, was to see from your experience what should I eliminate or add to be able to stay in the category I want to run.

I have a tire sponsor giving me Nankang tires and will be using the AR-1 size 225/45/15 which are 80 tread wear.

One of the things I've been told repeatedly is that these cars do not produce power no matter what you do to them. My plan is not to open the engine and do what ever is worth doing on the outside. One of the things I've been told is to use the 99-00 exhaust cam in the intake side and also i have written down to use the 04-05 MSM intake cam.

I read that I should put the filter in the cold side of the engine but not sure on how to do it with the flow meter.

I don't have much mechanical skills but I have a person who installs the parts for my other race cars and he does what it's difficult for me to do. His knowledge is not in Miata. The little knowledge I have is because I read and ask a lot about the car I'm driving and write everything down.

I don't have a big budget but prefer to wait a little more and buy the right part.

I'm new to forums so if I missed any information I should have written down here please let me know.

nice.

False. I had a perfectly good Dos Equis fall over into the back of the bay last weekend that I'd placed on the strut bar while changing the upstream 02 sensor. :cry:

RIP Dos Equis Lager. You will be missed.

Thanks for the advice! Looking forward to learning! I've been reading some of the posts but need to improve my searching skills.

Wow! Super interesting the way you have it narrowed down.

Will the Tomei cams will work better than the 99-00 or the MSM if the engine is stock inside? Or do I need to do a complete head work to be able to maximize them?

Thanks Emilio for the help and can't wait to receive the XIDA Race suspension tomorrow hopefully!

Im no expert on classing, but;

What is OEM ROLL BAR? mazda never made a roll bar, only a "style" bar that does nothing to protect you.
What is the purpose of " DeatschWerks 255 LPH Fuel Pump" ? nothing wrong with OEM pump setup, unless E85 or very high HP turbo build.

Are you planning on E85 or boost? If not, the DW200 pump seems like a bit overkill. It'll work fine, but if you haven't bought the pump yet, the DW100 will be more than adequate.
See trackspeed's recs here Deatschwerks Fuel Pumps (DW100/200/300)

Dammit, borka beat me to it.

I'll take a picture of the roll bar. I just wrote what the person that sold it to me mentioned.
The oem pump was not working and we found this option faster than the oem but I'm sure oem would have done the job just fine.

Lol! DW200 was the one my supplier had available at the moment.

I can bench race for days on mods you should do for NASA classing! Keep in mind D and E are no more, replaced with 5 and 6 which are different rulesets.

Yes this bunch is viscous, full of great knowledge but can become trolls in a keystroke. Search function is your friend, or just spend your time reading the Race prep area.

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...e-103-a-90770/ just one of many.

The rules you are running will dictate many of your mods. Do not know if the island rules are much looser???

Mainland NASA TTE can be very fickle on any non stock or even factory package upgrades. Read the rules carefully and talk to the TT director to see how you should go.

In Florida you will need a car running at the front of spec Miata or E30 to be competitive in TTE and will need Hoosiers. Many of the mods you mention will kick you pointed up, and a lot are not relevant for a TTE build.

What you have listed is much closer to a Supermiata S2 build, unfortunately that does not exist anywhere near you.

There are several very good TTE build threads in both the road race and build sections.

https://www.miataturbo.net/local-mee...ackdays-97589/

Will need to compare them to see how similar they are but I'm sure we have some differences. Here the NB Miata starts in E with no penalty points. Would need to see the NASA classing to compare.

I'm sure they might be a little looser.

I agree with the mods. That's why I want to keep learning to make the right decision with the mods that go in.

I had not occurred to me to search for TTE. Thanks!!!

A few notes;

Racing is expensive.....very expensive......did I mention it gets stupid expensive. Sold my Corvettes to run a Miata and now could have bought a C5Z for what I have in the Miata. :idea: Realize everything is much more expensive on the island

A good rollbar IE Blackbird Fabworx and a style bar are 2 completely different things. Style bar should not pass tech even though the do sneak by sometimes if the tech guy doesn't know what to look for.

A "real" race seat, Hans and 6 point harness is worth several seconds on many tracks. 3+ for me at Sebring. Barring that a G-Loc helps.

The Xida coilovers are awesome. They will make you want sticky tires, bushings, ext. ext. ext.

Ask and research, learn from other racers mistakes.

Most of what you read on many forums is outdated and just flat wrong, written by "guys-kids" that are doing things for the first time and going them wrong. Noted you are not either.

Fastest way to become a milionare- start with 10 million and begin racing something with 4 wheels.

The quote is: "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big one." - Junior Johnson

Here's some light reading on both ST5/TT5 and ST6/TT6:
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...st5-tt5-95309/
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...st6-tt6-97655/

Here's my favorite ST5/TT5 build:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...e-103-a-90770/

And here's my favorite ST6/TT6 build(I'm biased):
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...st6-tt6-83284/


The new rule-set for the number classes honestly makes it easier to manage. Less worry about getting the right combo of this part or that part for the correct amount of points. It's based on a weight-to-power formula with a handful of modifiers, such as the type of tires, aero, A-arm suspension, brakes, etc. Everything you have listed on your parts list doesn't add as a modifier. The rules don't care if you have an ECU, 5A intake cam, or hood vents now. They do have a tire template rule, it's a measurement of the width of the tire while mounted on the wheel. Certain car weights have to fit into certain templates. Keep in mind competition weight is "wet" so with driver, fuel, cool-suit, etc.

Here's some example weight:power ratios for the NB:
ST5/TT5
2250lbs @ 144rwhp avg ~150rwhp peak. Front air-dam, 4" splitter, rear wing. Must follow 226mm tire template (205 R7 on 15x8)
2400lbs @ 154rwhp avg ~159rwhp peak. Front air-dam, 4" splitter, rear wing. Must follow 257mm tire template (205/225 R7 on 15x9)
2450lbs @ 168rwhp avg ~174rwhp peak. OEM aero. Must follow 257mm tire template

ST6/TT6
2400lbs @ 128rwhp avg ~133rwhp peak. OEM aero. 257mm tire template
2450lbs @ 131rwhp avg ~136rwhp peak. OEM aero. 257mm tire template
2300lbs @ 123rwhp avg ~128rwhp peak. OEM aero. 226mm tire template.


NASA does have a decent calculator that helps with determining your power and weight goals: https://form.jotform.com/drivenasa/s...ification-form

It sounds like you're on the right track for parts and several people here have already started giving some good input. So what you'll really want to decide next is what class will you run? Thankfully there isn't anything inherent on a 6 car that will stop it from becoming a good 5 car. So if you want to start in 6 then move up to 5 later on, you'll be good to go. Only constraint I could think of for that route is "while you're in there" mods not being done initially.

As others have mentioned, NASA "letter" classes (Performance Touring) are officially defunct. If your group in PR wants to hit the easy button by cribbing NASA rules, it would be even easier for both racers and the sanctioning body to adopt the current ST (Super Touring) rules.
Easier to figure out what to build, cheaper to build for a given lap time, easier to tech and police on their side. I'd contact the body and verify which rule set you will need to build to first.

That said, an ST6 car is going to be a lot cheaper to make competitive than an ST5 car. Like junkyard vs built motor cheap. I wrote this a few years back if you plan open the engine: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...g-ideas-83443/
An ST6 car is neither powerful nor light so any speed comes from handling balance and keeping the engine in the powerband as much as possible. Handling wise, it's good shocks and suspension setup coupled with lowest CG you can afford with the lowest MOI (Moment of Inertia) you can build.
That means taking as much weight off the ends of the car as possible, with particular focus on the nose. Every pound counts so things like a lightweight race skin hard top in stead of a factory hard top will pay off.

Powerband wise means careful tuning of engine for greatest area under the curve, not peak power. Then gearing it so it will stay as close to peak power everywhere on track. Most critically when exiting turns. If you fall off the powerband exiting even one turn, that can add a full second to lap time pretty easily.
ST5 car benefits from aero but power still reigns as most important. ST6 car gains little from aero and almost none is allowed anyway.

I'm surprised NASA hasn't sent a cease and desist letter for using the rulesets or even safety guidelines lol.

Unfortunately, it's really easy to circumvent copyright laws in the US. Just change enough of the text to be able to argue in court that it's original. Court costs money so most smaller companies are reluctant to file suit unless they are sure that they win, be awarded a decent settlement then actually collect on that claim.
But NASA probably doesn't know about it anyway :P

Great information!

It's very interesting all of the things that NASA rules take into consideration to classify a car and adjudicate points penalty. Here in PR they are not weighting the cars, putting them on the dyno or taking points from aero modifications. In our case they don't have the budget, facilities or personnel to conduct those rigorous inspections.

We've been going threw the rules because there are lots of differences but it's interesting to be able to maximize de rules to our advantage. In my case I don't get penalty points for aero so would it be correct to say we could build a ST6 (ST6 = E, correct) that benefits from the aero? I read almost all of your tech articles in the website and it's really great information.

If aero is free then concentrate on the lowest drag options, considering your power level. Supermiata S1 aero it's going to be your best bet.

I'm going to check it out!