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NASA ST6/TT6

 
Old 07-31-2018, 05:37 PM
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Default NASA ST6/TT6

New for 2019. No more Performance Touring(PTE/D/F)

Provisional rules posted.

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...1--7-31-18.pdf


Keys off the top:

17:1 P:W
A arm penalty moved up to -.8:1 P:W.
No more Sedan/Hatch credit. (+.2)
226mm section width breakpoint moved to 2450lbs.
Splitter banned.
Spoiler/Wing allowed, but big penalty -1.0:1 P:W

Engine, Brake and Transmission update/backdate still free.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:18 PM
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Seems a typical points build NB or TTE* reclass is going to slot right in with minimal changes, which should be expected. Now to steal some wind from the sails of the TT/ST5 crowd and do some poverty class recruiting.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:19 PM
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Yeah, looks like you can still do a pretty cheap PTE style build. NB2s are finally back on par with everything else. Now time to start pouring over all the random 0 modifier bullshit lurking in there.

2450+lbs
-.3 <2550lb
-.8 A-Arms
+.4 BTM aero
205 R7s on a 15x9, although there may be a better non-hoosier option since that is fairly narrow now.

~138 avg whp. NB2 motor with bolt ons should do it. Very happy about that since that is in the range of extremely cheap power.

Last edited by FatKao; 07-31-2018 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Math is fucking hard, ok?
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:31 PM
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Comp weight less than:
2850 -.1
2650 -.2
2550 -.3
2450 -.4
2250 -.5
2150 -.6

A-arms -.7
BBK -.2
Spoiler/Wing -1.0
Splitter banned.
Floor drop penalized.

Update/backdate means Sport brakes are free.
NB engine swaps get a free 6spd trans (BP4W and BP6D)

At 2451lbs you get acces to 257mm (225/45/15 R7)



Most PTE cars will take -.4 for weight and -.8 for Aarms. Effective P:W goes to 18.2:1.
That's easy peasy to hit with no "points" for headers, squaretops, etc.

Last edited by doward; 10-11-2018 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:22 PM
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Don't you get .4 back for BTM aero?

Modified BTM, non-Base Trim Model (non-BTM), or replaced front fascia (unless specifically approved in Appendix B:
i) May have nothing attached to it other than specifically allowed items (above).
ii) May not have canards/winglets molded into it.
iii) Any item that is molded into the fascia during the original manufacturing process that functions as an airfoil, deflector, dive plane, or vortex generator and extends 2" or more past the outline of the immediate surrounding fascia is prohibited. To inspect: a plumb line run across the entire surface of the fascia and bumper shall not have any such item that extends 2” past the line when viewed from above.
This confuses me, ST5 specifically talks about air dams. ST6 has this. But attaching a sheet of ABS to OEM bumper skin would be 'modified BTM front facia,' no? What is NASA trying to allow here? Aftermarket bumper skins? Does someone need to produce a SPM style air dam for us to run in ST6?

Last edited by FatKao; 07-31-2018 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
Floor drop BANNED.
.
Mazda Miata (’90-’05): The driver’s side floor pan may be modified to accommodate larger/taller drivers. All modification shall be contained between the transmission tunnel, driver’s side rocker, rear bulkhead and no more than 24” forward of rear bulkhead. The modification shall not extend below the factory floor stiffener/frame rail. The steel used in the modification shall be no thinner than .060”. All modifications shall be welded in place. This modification shall serve no other purpose other than seating position. A -0.2 Modification Factor will be assessed for this modification.

Originally Posted by FatKao View Post
Don't you get .4 back for BTM aero?

4HP for an air dam @ 2451lbs. Worth it?
With no spoiler/wing to balance it? Nah (imo). I almost wonder if ST6 BTM aero will be adjusted, b/c it doesn't make sense to apply a massive -1.0 hit to spoiler/wing, but give .4 back for BTM aero when the only thing in between is an air dam. Unless I'm missing something. Seems for ST6 BTM aero should just be the way it is and anything beyond that takes a modifier, but, eh.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:35 PM
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The ST6 allowable front bumper aero rules read a bit weird. It seems like a front air dam isn’t allowed? Seems odd because there wouldn’t be much reason to not go BTM aero.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:37 PM
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Is that for things like the S2000 CR? Not that it's a legal ST6 car.
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:55 PM
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I do find it entertaining that they specifically called out the NC miata is banned from TT6 with the whole <168hp rule.

A couple tid bits I found:

6) Non-OEM metallic and/or spherical design replacement suspension bushing modifications on control/camber/toe arms/links, panhard rods, watts links, and torque arms shall be assessed a Modification Factor which is in addition to and additive to #4 & #5 above. (Includes replaced, modified, adjustable, or altered control arm ball joints for roll-center correction or camber/caster adjustment. Note: ball joint may be welded to the spindle for added strength).
Points for ELBJ

1) Anti-lock braking systems (ABS) may only be OEM or offered specifically for the car model (that generation, any trim model) as a factory option. No OEM systems offered for a different car model or aftermarket systems are permitted.
Looks like I'll be retrofitting ABS.

Seems like there is no point taking -1.0 for a rear wing, since you can't balance it out with a splitter.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:17 PM
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Good catch on the Miata specific floor drop appendix. I didn’t check those.

ELBJ get .2 p:w penalty but offset bushings are free. Get on the sadfab train.

A NASA legal spec Miata gets a potential .4 p:w hit between those two things. ^


Airdam rules and BTM interaction don’t make sense to me either.

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Old 07-31-2018, 10:42 PM
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Minus the confusing BTM aero, I like the idea that in 1 night and a different tune I can bounce between ST5 and 6.

This is going to make for some bigger run groups in the SE/Florida regions.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:46 PM
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The BTM aero language specifically refers to cars like the S2000 CR and/or Nismo 370Z, if I recall correctly. That same language was in the PT rulebook IIRC.
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:28 PM
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One thing I discussed with my buddy today is hood vents, fender vents (for cooling purposes), flat floor, and diffuser are legal.
The fender vents will be difficult to weasel around to fit the definition of "cooling vents."
The diffusor should be legal, and can be optimized since:
6b) Removal of the floor section of the rear hatch/trunk space and either replacement with a sheet metal cover or placement of a fuel cell is permitted without an additional Modification Factor.
4) Cutting/removal of the rear bumper cover/fascia where it does not cover the rear frame/bumper cross beam.
We both think the aero mods will be worth the 0.4 penalty, assuming you can manage to vent the fenders. This would act as drag reduction and downforce generation (albeit limited). So it will also improve your top speed.

Also the wording of the roll cage rules allows significant chassis stiffening:
CCR 15.6—Roll cages may be built to provide an unlimited amount of chassis stiffening. Any number of cage mounting points above the minimum required can be used. Any number of additional tubes, including those penetrating the firewall are permitted. (note: any tube(s) penetrating the firewall/front bulkhead shall be assessed a Modification Factor.) Tube-frame chassis conversion (partial or complete) is not permitted. If a vehicle cannot be driven safely, at full speed, with any of the added tubes removed, it is considered a tube-frame chassis conversion.
We're thinking you tie the cage into the firewall with two plates, then you have a triangulated strut tower brace that happens to bolt to said plates. No tubes protruding... no -0.2 penalty.

Last edited by engineered2win; 08-01-2018 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:26 PM
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Does anyone actually have any idea what you can do with the front end aero allowance?
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FatKao View Post
Does anyone actually have any idea what you can do with the front end aero allowance?
Not even a little bit, other than (for Miatas) something like R-Package or GV lip, although I'm not even sure that's allowed. The fact that the air dam is specifically called out for ST5 definitely muddies the water.

Originally Posted by engineered2win View Post
The diffusor should be legal, and can be optimized since:
6b) Removal of the floor section of the rear hatch/trunk space and either replacement with a sheet metal cover or placement of a fuel cell is permitted without an additional Modification Factor.
4) Cutting/removal of the rear bumper cover/fascia where it does not cover the rear frame/bumper cross beam.
We both think the aero mods will be worth the 0.4 penalty, assuming you can manage to vent the fenders. This would act as drag reduction and downforce generation (albeit limited). So it will also improve your top speed.
I think the aero idea is a bit of stretch, especially in a class where a spoiler/wing is so severely penalized. Whereas ST1-4 is unlimited unless stated otherwise, ST5-6 appear to be more along the lines of if it doesn't say you can, you can't. As with PT the flat bottom/belly pan forward of front axle center line is called out, so if full flat bottoms were allowed with a modifier I'd expect wording saying so. Same goes for diffuser. I don't read the bumper cut or removal/replacement of trunk floor as allowing a diffuser or flat bottom. I could certainly be wrong.

Last edited by cabowabo; 08-02-2018 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:22 AM
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I am surprisingly pleased with this rule-set! I can add a few more horse-powerz and a 6spd. I also get to keep my current suspension and only have to add ~20lbs of ballast to insure I'm 2451lbs + consistently.

I'm on the fence about adding a MS to replace my reflashed stock ECU. Purely from a "budget" stand point, not from a "what mod should I do next". I know it's better to have it so I can likely adjust/improve the curve, but if I can get away with not spending much money and still be competitive in 6, that's cool with me.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:52 PM
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You already make more power than I do with an MS3, sooo unless you plan on running e85, bigger injectors, or have a specific reason to run MS not sure I could justify it either. Think I'm gonna stick with the power I got, drop nearly 100lbs, and run RR's since they finally got a good contingency. Not that I've collected any contingency anyways, so really just trying to cut down tire costs and get some more reasonably quick HC's.

NASA forums question about ST6 aero got a non-answer. Sigh.
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by engineered2win View Post
The diffusor should be legal, and can be optimized since:
6b) Removal of the floor section of the rear hatch/trunk space and either replacement with a sheet metal cover or placement of a fuel cell is permitted without an additional Modification Factor.
4) Cutting/removal of the rear bumper cover/fascia where it does not cover the rear frame/bumper cross beam.
We both think the aero mods will be worth the 0.4 penalty, assuming you can manage to vent the fenders. This would act as drag reduction and downforce generation (albeit limited). So it will also improve your top speed.

Aero mods are a sure case of "it doesn't say you can, therefore you can't"
6.1.5. says: "aerodynamic parts/devices/aides shall be limited in ST6 to the following: " and never mentions diffuser or flat floor. Expect to get bumped to ST3 with a diffuser or floor.
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FatKao View Post
Does anyone actually have any idea what you can do with the front end aero allowance?
Originally Posted by Rulebook
3) Modified BTM, non-Base Trim Model (non-BTM), or replaced front fascia (unless specifically approved in Appendix B:
i) May have nothing attached to it other than specifically allowed items (above).
ii) May not have canards/winglets molded into it.
iii) Any item that is molded into the fascia during the original manufacturing process that functions as an airfoil, deflector, dive plane, or vortex generator and extends 2" or more past the outline of the immediate surrounding fascia is prohibited. To inspect: a plumb line run across the entire surface of the fascia and bumper shall not have any such item that extends 2 past the line when viewed from above.
I read that as you either leave the front bumper 100% OEM BTM to earn the BTM credit, or take the .4 penalty which allows:
a. Rpkg/LE/SE/Sport/LS tupperware/lips.
b. Aftermarket fiberglass bumpers that don't have canard-y shaped bits.
c. flat front plastic aridams we've been running for a decade.

In 6, we're not allowed splitters, so your front bumper has to not earn a 'splitter' protest like the GV lips proved to.
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:37 PM
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I think some of the confusion is that the air dam isn't mentioned in ST6 aero rules, then is specifically called out in ST5. So seems only A and B apply from above. Guess it doesn't really matter because I can't imagine throwing away +.4 for an air dam.
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