Engine Break in/tuning - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-21-2010, 01:52 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Marietta, Ga
Posts: 224
Total Cats: -1
Default Engine Break in/tuning

So I am rebuilding a motor completely, and I am going to be running a Braineack-DIYPNP. Do you guys think I should do engine break in with small amount of tuning to get me through break in miles? I want to run no boost for approx 800 miles to seat the rings properly. I'm not really sure how I need to go about doing what I want to do. Any opinions, ideas?
JEMERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 01:40 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

If I could have done break-in again, I would have done it stock, with no boost, no aftermarket ECU. And run it hard stock. Aftermarket EMS is a worry when doing break in and also you want to troubleshoot as little mechanical bullshit while you're doing your first few miles.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 01:43 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Incline Village, NV
Posts: 2,073
Total Cats: 5
Default

If your a man, you break in your fully built motor in the paddock at the track. With less than 3 miles on it you hit the track for a day.

That's how I did it
thesnowboarder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 12:13 PM   #4
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 31
Total Cats: 0
Default

I just put mine together and got it into boost the first 2 miles after starting it. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, but everyone has their own idea on what works best. but always double check everything before driving it for the first time. sometimes you'll be suprised at the things you'll find.
rileyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 01:22 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

I think that putting boost into it from mile one is a good idea if you're secure in your setup.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 03:44 PM   #6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Marietta, Ga
Posts: 224
Total Cats: -1
Default

I think I'm going with flyin miatas engine break in procedure.
JEMERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 04:42 PM   #7
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Posts: 579
Total Cats: 12
Default

I used Flyin Miata's procedure too. It worked great for the short time that my motor lasted (machine shop screwed up). But that advice about trouble shooting as few things as possible is very good advice. You don't want to have to try to get a tune running, break in the motor, and make sure everything is running properly all at the same time. Start stock, break in the motor so you can see any issues. Then add the MS, then injectors, then turbo. It will save you a lot of headaches if you run into any problems.
baron340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 04:51 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,685
Total Cats: 216
Default

800 MILES!?!?!
Dude, breaking in the engine takes an hour.

And yes, it would be wise to start tuning as youre breaking it in.

Start it up and immediately start getting the idle good as it warms up. then go start tuning while breaking in the rings.

Basically start by accelerating slowly to 3k, and letting it decelerate in gear, then accelerate to 4k, and decelerate in gear, so this a few times each step and slowly work your way up to 6k rpm. At which point you should be making WOT pulls, and letting it fully decelerate down to idle in gear.
Youre basically trying to pull as much vacuum as possible.

After youve done a few good pulls and are sure the rings are set, change the oil, and continue tuning.
Your engine is now broken in "the right way" and will make more power because of it. Now you can hook the wastegate up and make some boost.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 11:12 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Posts: 579
Total Cats: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
800 MILES!?!?!
Dude, breaking in the engine takes an hour.
So why is it that FM and Bell engineering both recommend high throttle/high vac cycles at first and then at least 1000 miles before putting any really heavy loads on a motor? Personally I'm going with keeping the motor nice and safe until I'm certain that everything is well seated and running smoothly.
baron340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 11:19 PM   #10
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,362
Total Cats: 3
Default

Breaking in an engine is get in your car

1) Get to 4th gear at about 5,000 (no boost just cruise up to this rpm)
2) Snap the throttle until your boost gauge reads 0
3) Let off the gas keeping it in gear until it goes down to around 1,500 RPM or so
4) Repeat a few times
5) Boost the **** out of it...

Who process takes about 15 mins if that.
jtothawhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 11:31 PM   #11
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,196
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

I've heard millions of reasons why its good to run it hard right after assembly, and a million why its not.

So I did both on the miata as well as many of the subaru's I've built:
1st 400 miles I babied it. No more than half throttle and no more than 4k rpm, and LOTS of engine deceleration.
Oil change
400-800 low boost and more throttle but not beating on it constantly.
Oil change
Then run it ***** out whenever and however.


Not saying that IS THE way, or going to argue with others about it. Its worked for me. Every single time. Never had oil consumption issues or anything like that.

Just my .02
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 11:38 PM   #12
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,367
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baron340 View Post
So why is it that FM and Bell engineering both recommend high throttle/high vac cycles at first and then at least 1000 miles before putting any really heavy loads on a motor?
Honestly, I'd like to hear them explain it. Motor break-in is completed within 50 miles of first startup - if you don't do it within 50 miles it will never happen. All you're doing is seating the rings, and if you don't do it quickly the walls glaze and the rings will never seat correctly.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 11:43 PM   #13
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,196
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Honestly, I'd like to hear them explain it. Motor break-in is completed within 50 miles of first startup - if you don't do it within 50 miles it will never happen. All you're doing is seating the rings, and if you don't do it quickly the walls glaze and the rings will never seat correctly.
I've heard someone say that the new rings and the freshly honed walls aren't as smooth at first. If you beat on it hard right away it creates tons more heat and friction and can do some damage.


Why do all OEM's tell you to baby new cars/bikes for the 1st 1000 miles if its utterly useless?
Not trying to argue any side btw, cause honestly I'm still not convinced by either which is why I do a combination of both.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 12:10 AM   #14
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Posts: 579
Total Cats: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Honestly, I'd like to hear them explain it. Motor break-in is completed within 50 miles of first startup - if you don't do it within 50 miles it will never happen. All you're doing is seating the rings, and if you don't do it quickly the walls glaze and the rings will never seat correctly.
The seating part I understand, it makes sense to me. Load it up before the rings get work hardened and the walls get glazed. But why the take it easy for 1000 miles part? Just for safety measures or what? Also the not maintaining a constant cruise on the highway for the first couple thousand miles.. I don't understand it, but I've seen it kill motors first hand. Someone with more knowledge than me start explaining.. ready go.
baron340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 12:26 AM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,685
Total Cats: 216
Default

Lets get something straight.
There is only ONE part of engine break-in, and thats the rings.
You have to rev the engine and pull lots of vacuum in order to get the rings to seat. If you dont do it immediatly they will never seat as well as they could and the engine will basically never make as much power as it could have.

There is nothing else to break in. Journal bearings do not work with any metal the metal contact, they function by having a constant laying of oil around the pins of the crank. So there is nothing there to break-in.
The only reason you see any wear on the bearings is from starting or from reving the engine too high.

I very much doubt that today you have any manufactures saying to take it easy on new cars, and if they are saying that, theyre stupid.
The easy break in is a myth that has been completely disproven.

Corky is just old school, so hes an advocate of the easy break-in, and FM doesnt know anything they didnt learn from Corky. So that explains that
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 12:35 AM   #16
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,362
Total Cats: 3
Default

^^^ Exactly!!!

Engine break in takes no more than 15-30 mins and hour at most.
jtothawhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 01:18 AM   #17
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,196
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post

I very much doubt that today you have any manufactures saying to take it easy on new cars, and if they are saying that, theyre stupid.
The easy break in is a myth that has been completely disproven.

Corky is just old school, so hes an advocate of the easy break-in, and FM doesnt know anything they didnt learn from Corky. So that explains that
Every single one still is.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 02:57 AM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,685
Total Cats: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Every single one still is.
Cite your sources you dastardly ****, lol
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 03:09 AM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,685
Total Cats: 216
Default

The owners manual of my mustang says this:


"BREAKING-IN YOUR VEHICLE
Your vehicle does not need an extensive break-in. Try not to drive
continuously at the same speed for the first 1,000 miles (1,600 km) of
new vehicle operation. Vary your speed frequently in order to give the
moving parts a chance to break in.
Drive your new vehicle at least 100 miles (160 km) before performing
extended wide open throttle maneuvers and at least 1,000 miles
(1,600 km) before towing a trailer or before performance/competition
conditions. For more detailed information about towing a trailer, refer to
Trailer towing in the Tires, Wheels and Loading chapter.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 03:21 AM   #20
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,196
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Cite your sources you dastardly ****, lol
all 3 of my subarus
my friends brand new kawasaki 250r
my friends 335i
all 4 of my RSX's

Too many other cars to list all say to not rev past 4k or go full throttle the 1st 1000 miles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
The owners manual of my mustang says this:


"BREAKING-IN YOUR VEHICLE
Your vehicle does not need an extensive break-in. Try not to drive
continuously at the same speed for the first 1,000 miles (1,600 km) of
new vehicle operation. Vary your speed frequently in order to give the
moving parts a chance to break in.
Drive your new vehicle at least 100 miles (160 km) before performing
extended wide open throttle maneuvers and at least 1,000 miles
(1,600 km) before towing a trailer or before performance/competition
conditions
. For more detailed information about towing a trailer, refer to
Trailer towing in the Tires, Wheels and Loading chapter.
hmmmm
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 Yesterday 09:00 PM
Buzzing from driver side of engine bay? (MS3 install) nick470 MEGAsquirt 7 06-16-2017 02:53 PM
Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 19 10-19-2015 04:23 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 PM.