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Old 05-20-2011, 12:02 PM   #1
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Default Engine Building 101

I don't have the money, or trust to let someone else assemble my engine, so I will ask you all, plus, I have some local support as well.

1: Where do I get the tolerances for the 1.8 engine. I found an FSM, but it was for a 1.6. I remember this site had one for a 1.8 (99) but it dissappeared.

2: Even though I had the machine shop mic and polish my crank, I will still use plastigauge on re-assembly, because like I said, I don't trust other people with my ****. I have arp main studs and rod bolts on belfab rods. How do I find the proper stretch that the rodbolts need to go to, and if there is new torque specs for the main studs.

3: While plastigauging the rods, will I use the stretch gauge on plastigauging them too? It seems like if you stretch them to the peak of their capacity once, you wouldn't be able to do it again. Requiring new bolts. Would I just torque them down to spec, or a little less, check plastigauge, then re assemble with the proper stretch if everything is kosher?


4. Rebuild kit/ bearings. I have not purchased these yet. My short block has inadvertantly turned into a full buildish kind of thing. I have a boundary street/strip pump. 84mm supertechs, and belfab rods. What should I tell the machine shop to do for clearance on the pistons. Do I need ACL race bearings? I plan on revving probably max 7500-7700, I wasn't planning on 8k. I am gunning for mid 300's. Probably 350-375 max, but more like 325.

5. What should I tell the machine shop to do for clearance on the pistons. I read somewhere .003 is a good number. Should I get the machine shop to do the piston/rod assembly? I don't have a mic.

6. Oil squirters. I have read about people removing these. I don't think it sounds like a great idea, but I thought I would throw it out there.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:21 PM   #2
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Subscribed. I have all the same questions.
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:24 PM   #3
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Take the pistons to the shop so that they can measure them and hone the cyls and match the pistons to them if need be. Also bring whatever papers came with them as well. Then sit down and talk with them and explain exactly what you plan to do with the engine so that they can better understand your build. I just got done doing the same thing. Depending on how many miles are on the head you may want to have them do a valve job. I would also say to make sure they do a good inspection on the block and head even if they are not going to be doing any head work.

Have a great day,
Jared
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:24 PM   #4
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Take the pistons to the shop so that they can measure them and hone the cyls and match the pistons to them if need be. Also bring whatever papers came with them as well. Then sit down and talk with them and explain exactly what you plan to do with the engine so that they can better understand your build. I just got done doing the same thing. Depending on how many miles are on the head you may want to have them do a valve job. I would also say to make sure they do a good inspection on the block and head even if they are not going to be doing any head work.

Have a great day,
Jared
That is what I was planning on with the pistons. They also magnafluxed everything (block/crank). As for the head, I think I will snag a low mileage vvt head. I am just really concerned with the shortblock as of now.

Oh, So that means I will have to run an 01 hg? how will this effect the reroute? I read in a thread your not supposed to do both. Are the ebay hg's decent? I ran one on my car, and didn't blow it.
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:27 PM   #5
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Buy this book or use what you can read online. Between searching here at mt.net, mnet and what you can read of this book online I think most of your questions are answered.

http://books.google.com/books?id=8eN...epage&q&f=true



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Old 05-20-2011, 03:55 PM   #6
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Your piston clearance will be determined by what you use the car for, street cars can run tighter clearances that race cars do.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:00 PM   #7
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As for the head, I think I will snag a low mileage vvt head. I am just really concerned with the shortblock as of now.

Oh, So that means I will have to run an 01 hg? how will this effect the reroute?
I believe the consensus was that your best option is to run the 94-00 headgasket and use the reroute. The 01+ heads still have the same passages, several of them are just blocked off.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #8
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I believe the consensus was that your best option is to run the 94-00 headgasket and use the reroute. The 01+ heads still have the same passages, several of them are just blocked off.
This is correct. I have a 99 gasket on my car. Don't know if they are different. I personally like to use PEKING gaskets. That's just me.

Have a great day,
Jared
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:20 PM   #9
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agree with pdexta - there's no reason to run the 01+ HG
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:35 PM   #10
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Rodger. I just confirmed the VVT head for less than 300 dollars. That **** looks brand new. I will be picking it up on the first. I can't wait for the VVT controller to come out with a DIY kit so I can build me one. I think I have settled on an ebay head gasket kit then, my other one held just fine, and I will just get felpro lower gasket set, and then acl race bearings. So, about my plastigauge question. I might just have to make a call to arp.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
Rodger. I just confirmed the VVT head for less than 300 dollars. That **** looks brand new. I will be picking it up on the first. I can't wait for the VVT controller to come out with a DIY kit so I can build me one. I think I have settled on an ebay head gasket kit then, my other one held just fine, and I will just get felpro lower gasket set, and then acl race bearings. So, about my plastigauge question. I might just have to make a call to arp.
Just upgrade your MS to MS3 and very soon you can have it control VVT.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:54 AM   #12
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Just upgrade your MS to MS3 and very soon you can have it control VVT.
That is on the list, but not now, since I need to get the dam thing rolling first. Any Ideas on the rodbolt Idea?
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:13 AM   #13
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Summit sells a rod bolt gauge if you can get to both ends of the bolt. Depending on the bolt, we've just torqued the ls arp rod bolts to 45 foot pound and walked away. Assuming the rods came with those bolts, the rod "shouldn't" need machine work.

For the mains, the machine shop needs to check them for out of round with the arp's. Some need line honed, others don't.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:26 PM   #14
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my belfab rods needed machined on the big end for out-of-round
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:32 AM   #15
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Hmm. I used plastigauge (well it was made by sealed power) on my crank yesterday on re assembly. It ended up somewhere between .003 and .004. Not max but close. The machine shop told me the crank was in spec for use with the .010 bearings I have. Something is amiss. So, is that too much crank oil clearance? I haven't made it to the rods yet. I freaked out when it wasn't exactly at the factory standard. Also, I might try a different brand of plastigauge and re torque everything. Ideas or suggestions?

Oh, I am using ACL race bearings, .25mm/.010in undersized, and asked that my crank was cut and spec'd accordingly.
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:48 PM   #16
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The only thing I can comment on is the squirters. Everyone here will tell you to keep them, but my motor does not have them and has been fine for 6000kms with a lot of dyno tuning, one track day and a hill climb making 230whp. .003/.004 is not that out. IIRC my motor is right around the same because the crank was pretty worn from 200,000kms of use. It's a bit looser then factory specs but given the power I'm making, what I'm using it for and spinning it to 8k, it's fine.
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:43 PM   #17
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Being out on the "loose" end of things is common for race oriented bearings, as you don't get a 1000 mile break-in on a race engine the way you might on a street engine. All of the bottom ends I've done have used the ACL Race bearings and were near the loose end of the factory spec. I don't remember what the exact numbers were but Sav might have the spec sheet I gave him when we did his bottom end, ask him.
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:54 PM   #18
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.003 is super loose on the mains. Factory spec is .0008-.0013, rods are .0012-.0018. The last motor I did was .0035 mains and rods, and I had crap oil pressure and the bearings didn't look so hot coming out after ~20 hours of runtime. I pushed it down to .0020 on the mains and .0025 on the rods this time, but that's for my motor, which sees nothing but track time at 400whp. For a street motor, I would set the clearances right at the top end of factory spec - we're assembling a street MSM motor right now and it's getting mains in the .0010 range and rods in the .0015 range.

ACL makes a STD bearing, a STD-X bearing which is .001" more clearance, and an .025mm undersize bearing which is .001" smaller. You should be able to get whatever clearances you want, no matter what.

You should really have a rod bolt stretch gauge if you're assembling engines. I have an old set of ARP2000 bolts that I use for assembly, and the fresh ones get saved for final torque. Their spec sheet says 60ft.lbs, I've found that the .0055-.0060" stretch comes at between 65 and 75 ft.lbs on my torque wrench.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:21 PM   #19
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Maybe I was thinking .00013-.00014.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:57 PM   #20
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.003 is super loose on the mains. Factory spec is .0008-.0013, rods are .0012-.0018. The last motor I did was .0035 mains and rods, and I had crap oil pressure and the bearings didn't look so hot coming out after ~20 hours of runtime. I pushed it down to .0020 on the mains and .0025 on the rods this time, but that's for my motor, which sees nothing but track time at 400whp. For a street motor, I would set the clearances right at the top end of factory spec - we're assembling a street MSM motor right now and it's getting mains in the .0010 range and rods in the .0015 range.

ACL makes a STD bearing, a STD-X bearing which is .001" more clearance, and an .025mm undersize bearing which is .001" smaller. You should be able to get whatever clearances you want, no matter what.

You should really have a rod bolt stretch gauge if you're assembling engines. I have an old set of ARP2000 bolts that I use for assembly, and the fresh ones get saved for final torque. Their spec sheet says 60ft.lbs, I've found that the .0055-.0060" stretch comes at between 65 and 75 ft.lbs on my torque wrench.

Well, I am already .010/.25mm undersize. I guess the machine shop cut the crank too much. I don't know if my plastigague is shady, or what. I will buy more and try again. I plan on using a rod bolt stretch gauge. Thanks for answering my question on those. Thanks also for posting the stretch numbers on those, I didn't have those with my rods. I will give her another whirl, and I guess I might need to go .020 under with the bearings.
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