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Old 07-29-2013, 12:52 PM   #21
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Reason why I ask about the afr at the time it actually ran is because it could have flooded like crazy and died as a result. Then when you restarted BOOM goes the gasket.

Although I'm still unsure if its the gasket or maybe rings or burnt a valve or something.

*edit: or maybe you washed the walls to the point of burning a ring? I dunno just guessing
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:08 PM   #22
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Keep the spark plug out of cylinder 2, run it on three cylinders for a minute, and see if any more oil enters the cylinder. If you've got a third hand, hold a shop rag over the spark plug hole to minimize the mess.

C
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erat View Post
How much smoke did this thing pump out just before it died?

To have that much oil in it, you had to of saw a huge ploom of blue smoke.
That's just it there wasn't smoke though. I'm sure there surely will be now if it will start.

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Reason why I ask about the afr at the time it actually ran is because it could have flooded like crazy and died as a result. Then when you restarted BOOM goes the gasket.

Although I'm still unsure if its the gasket or maybe rings or burnt a valve or something.

*edit: or maybe you washed the walls to the point of burning a ring? I dunno just guessing
Hmmm okay I get what you're saying. And when I went to crank it back up after it died I did hear I POP but I didn't think that there were oil passages in the head gasket that ran next to cylinder 2. Either way if it still seems to leak oil I'll just have to tear her down.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by chriscar View Post
Keep the spark plug out of cylinder 2, run it on three cylinders for a minute, and see if any more oil enters the cylinder. If you've got a third hand, hold a shop rag over the spark plug hole to minimize the mess.

C
Okay will do.
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:52 PM   #25
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That's just it there wasn't smoke though. I'm sure there surely will be now if it will start.
That kind of implies that the cylinder filled after it shut down, or during the cranking when attempting to restart.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:31 PM   #26
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UPDATE:

okay so I removed the coupler at the throttle body and everything was dry there. I drained oil and nothing looked out of place. I put the oil back into the motor cranked it without any of the spark plugs in to see if the would be and oil entering the cylinder. I did that 3 times for about 5 seconds each checking the cylinders between each try. there was no sign of oil entering the cylinders. I went ahead and put the spark plugs back into the motor and cranked her up. I let her run for about 5 seconds and shut her down. There was definitely smoke this time. I pulled the plugs again and cylinders 1, 2 and 3 were covered in oil. On cylinder 1 I could still see the piston through the oil and on 2 and 3 the was a clear coat of oil to where the piston was completely submerged on oil. There wasn't quite enough to be able to suck up the oil in the cylinder with my mityvac but a tear down is definitely a must.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:44 PM   #27
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Start by pulling off the cylinder head, or better yet pull off the intake to see if the intake runners are wet.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:11 PM   #28
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So I guess this thread is a loss till the motor gets torn a part.

I stopped and talked with an engine builder in the area toady and discussed dropping the car off to have the motor built since it needs a tear down anyways.

Here is what we discussed:

Wiseco 83.5mm 8.5-8.8:1 pistons
Manley forged connecting rods
Cometic 0.40 MLS head gasket for a 99 (plan on adding a coolant reroute down the line)
Supertech valve spring kit
Supertech Valve Seals
Stainless Steel valves
ARP Head Studs
ARP Main Studs
Gates Racing timing belt
The standard machine work(hot tank, 3-angle valve job, pressure test, and resurface)
Balanced and Blueprinted
and a full tune for about $5,700 or $4800 if I decide to skip the valves and valve springs.

I would just need to bring my supermiata damper, Clutch kit(FM supersized happy meal) and Boundary Engineering "Street/Strip" oil pump with 2 shims (as suggested by Travis at BE)

I'm going to see if I can supplement some of the cost by possibly getting some of the parts on my own.

It doesn't sound like a terrible price but he is recommending the use of factory main bearings over the ACL for streetability which I haven't seen too often so I'm not sure there.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:26 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
Start by pulling off the cylinder head, or better yet pull off the intake to see if the intake runners are wet.
I'm not sure if I'm going to dig into it any more. I'm trying to scrounge together funds for the build since it really needs one anyways. I just figure if I'm going to have to end up taking it apart I might as well just build it.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:18 PM   #30
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(plan on adding a coolant reroute down the line)
If you dont do it when the engine is already out you'll realize how much of a raging idiot you are when you go to do it.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:23 PM   #31
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Why 2 shims on the BE oil pump? I didn't order mine with any but then again I didn't talk to them.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:35 PM   #32
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2 shims on oil pump, but not using ACL bearings? Even if it is a street car, you can use the ACL bearings. You'll have an engine capable of a lot of HP and bearings being one of the weaker points should be upgraded.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:16 AM   #33
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2 shims on oil pump, but not using ACL bearings? Even if it is a street car, you can use the ACL bearings. You'll have an engine capable of a lot of HP and bearings being one of the weaker points should be upgraded.
He was sating to use the ACL's for the rods but factory for the mains. I was a little hesitant about that though I'm going to tell him to put all ACL's in it. As far as the shimmed pump, that's what Travis recommended to me.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:35 AM   #34
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Because you are having such unusual symptoms, it still makes me think there is some kind of simple problem that is causing this. Maybe not, but it would be a tragedy if you went through all that when you really did not need to. Wouldn't it suck if you build a motor, started it, and the same thing happens again.

However, we all know you would be better off with a built motor, so if you are ok with that then do it and never look back. In saying that, I am dying to know what the problem is.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:40 AM   #35
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I kinda agree: you need to figure out the problem 100% before you do anything else.

I think you should still ABSOLUTELY build the motor, simply because it would be a waste of EFR otherwise, but not knowing what caused this issue and then re-use the long block in a build is asking for trouble.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:56 AM   #36
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Frank, when you run the ARP main studs you'll have to cut the MSM oil girdle. I ran into that problem yesterday while putting my engine back together.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:34 AM   #37
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ive bent a rod before during cranking but it wasnt oil. i had an unknown to me at the time, leaking fuel injector. flooded a cylinder and bent the rod. i did a complete tear down to comfirm.. i suppose we could compare nissan SR20 starters to the miata for measured torque outputs but we also should consider the rods they could bend in this rare situation.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:06 PM   #38
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I'm not going to physically be the one tearing apart the motor as I don't really have the time to dedicate to the car to get it done in a timely manner. The rods are on the list of my concerns and the motor with be torn down to figure out what the issue was and then rebuilt with new internals on the bottom end. As soon as the head comes off it'll be sent to be checked for and cracks as well. Im sure once everything is taken apart the problem shall show itself but the build won't proceed any further until the culprit is found.

I had every intention of building the motor from the start only it was on my time and not do to an issue like this.

I'll post the findings after it gets torn down.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:50 PM   #39
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I know this may be random but I ran into a similar issue when working on a friends 240 when he put his turbo on. What was originally thought to be oil in the cylinders was not oil at all it turned out when he installed his injectors he scrapped the seals on two of them. There was an abundance of fuel in the cylinders that smelled like oil and looked like oil due to being mixed with lots of crap out of the intake. I would suggest removing the injectors and looking at the seals or taking all the plugs out and having someone cycle the key to see if they can hear them leaking into the cylinders. I dont see how a car could run when stopped never went in the motor and now fills cylinders with oil. I know its just my two cents but injector o rings are much much cheaper than an engine.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impuls View Post
Frank, when you run the ARP main studs you'll have to cut the MSM oil girdle. I ran into that problem yesterday while putting my engine back together.
Thanks for the heads up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
I know this may be random but I ran into a similar issue when working on a friends 240 when he put his turbo on. What was originally thought to be oil in the cylinders was not oil at all it turned out when he installed his injectors he scrapped the seals on two of them. There was an abundance of fuel in the cylinders that smelled like oil and looked like oil due to being mixed with lots of crap out of the intake. I would suggest removing the injectors and looking at the seals or taking all the plugs out and having someone cycle the key to see if they can hear them leaking into the cylinders. I dont see how a car could run when stopped never went in the motor and now fills cylinders with oil. I know its just my two cents but injector o rings are much much cheaper than an engine.
thanks I'll probably take a look at that but I'm 99% positive it is oil(I used Royal Purple and its still fresh)
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