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Old 12-19-2011, 09:59 AM   #1
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Default Engine rebuild with turbo

Be advised you may have seen this post at m.net already

Hey everyone
I have a 2002 SE with approx 130k miles. I am starting to consider an engine rebuild focused on turbo. I have been doing as much research as I could but I want opinions from other owners out there.
The plan is to have the engine rebuilt, overbore and stroke to 1.9 or 2.0 is a possibility, around the Begi S4. I haven't yet decided which turbo to use but I am pretty much dead set on using FM's Hydra.
Being in Afghanistan currently, I have not called any of the shops because that would mean me being up at 0300-0400 to make the calls. I have read alot about the Begi/FM "thing" and I hope that FM will tune the Begi kit.
I would like to hear from people that have engine rebuilds from FM, Trackspeed and Begi. Please be frank about the good and bad.
I could hope to be lucky enough that Keith, Brandon, Savington and Corky all chime in on this one, but please bring the opinions and comments, all are greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:08 AM   #2
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You're not going to learn much from a phone call with anyone that's not on the internet. TSE copied my engine build and they are not paying me royalties. I've been on a low compression 99 engine for 3 years and no problems other than recently discovering that I bent 7 intake valves (the car still ran fine). So now I have SS valves and stiffer springs so hopefully that won't happen again.

You need to first decide if you want to track the car or hardpark, because there's a 300% price difference.

ARTech builds heavenly stuff, consider him too.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:39 AM   #3
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How about a purpose and power goal?
Are you looking for pure top-end numbers or an actual useable powerband... street or track power?
What are you going to do with this car?
What is your budget?
Why the boner for a Hydra?
Are you going to drive it to Colorado just for FM to tune it?
What mods are currently on the car?
What capability do you have to work on the car yourself?

Moar info please... like fill out your profile with your location and put something in your signature. Lotsa people on this forum never go to m.net and have no clue who you are there.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:12 PM   #4
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Sorry about the vagueness I thought I had filled out the profile and signature. I go by the same SN on m.net, cr.net and mt.net. I'm haven't really posted much since there is so much information between all of the forums, I just read alot.
The plan is keep it a street car primarily but have the ability to have some fun doing autocross and HPDE's. Since the car doesnt have to be competitive I'm looking for a strong build that can support the dual role and sustain 270hp/250tq.
The budget has to be the best bang for the buck, or at least I have to sell it that way since I am not making payments on the car. The boner for the Hydra is beacause of the FM support. If this were simply a "toy" I would opt for the Reverant MS.
I could drive the car to Colorado for the Hydra, but the wife has cleared shipping it for the build as well. The car is stock except that I have swapped the peanut lights in the gauge cluster for LEDs. As for being a shadetree mechanic, I have worked on all my cars for 14 years. A 1991 FC RX-7, 1999 Eclipse GST, 2003 G35 Sedan, 2002 Miata and 2005 QX56. I have done alot of "tuning" through the years and also all of my own maintenance. On the Eclipse I took the OEM turbo system and replaced all of the parts piece by piece and essentially had the Begi S4. As for ARTech I can't get much info from his website and I won't be calling the shops (FM, Begi, TSE, ARTech, ABSURDflow) until I am done with deployment and back home.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:30 PM   #5
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270whp is a fast fast fast car, I only run at 248whp because it's "fast enough" without aero. You will need to spend some cash to keep this car reliable on the track. Most of the time and money is spent on things like ducting, heat abatement, bolt/material strength...attention to detail and understanding physics helps a lot.

Drivability and tune quality has more to do with initiative and commitment to do it yourself rather than "better hardware". You'll be hard pressed to find a car that drives better than my car running archaich batch-fire, 2-tooth, old school technology.

Last edited by hustler; 12-19-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:37 PM   #6
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Hydra is pretty awesome and all, but the fact that it uses some proprietary wideband controller is absolutely beyond retarded. E.g. to have an AFR gauge with Hydra you need to run a second wideband, which may or may not read same as Hydra wideband. Awesome!!!!!!!
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Hydra is pretty awesome and all, but the fact that it uses some proprietary wideband controller is absolutely beyond retarded. E.g. to have an AFR gauge with Hydra you need to run a second wideband, which may or may not read same as Hydra wideband. Awesome!!!!!!!
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:21 PM   #8
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If you are shipping the car out to Colorado to have it tuned, I would highly suggest going with one of their kits. It will make the whole process easier.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:09 PM   #9
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first -- thank you for your service
second -- get home safely
third -- all the preceding questions concerning (1) what you are starting with, (2) where you want to be [performance wise] when finished, and (3) what are your talent, time, and monetary resources? after that it is easy to map a planned build.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:09 PM   #10
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Finally off communicatins blackout. So I've decided on most of my plan. The only factor is the EMS. I'm still leaning toward Hydra despite the funky WBC since I'll only be adding a boost gauge. Does anyone have any suggestions what I can use for a 2002 SE. I really want a PnP and as much as I would like to tinker I want to get the engine/power upgrades done so I can "set it and forget it" and chase the aero/handling. In case I haven't been clear, I know enough from my 4G63 days to get into trouble and will not be chasing the power rabbit once the goals are met.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:30 PM   #11
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Parallel MS install is probably the way to go, I don't know of many people running Hydra parallel, nor of anyone who dislikes their MS stuffs.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:41 PM   #12
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have you thought about building your own kit?
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:13 AM   #13
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If you are in need of a rebuild we are still having a sale on our long blocks.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Hydra is pretty awesome and all, but the fact that it uses some proprietary wideband controller is absolutely beyond retarded. E.g. to have an AFR gauge with Hydra you need to run a second wideband, which may or may not read same as Hydra wideband. Awesome!!!!!!!
It'd only read differently if it was installed improperly/badly calibrated.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:37 AM   #15
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I think that building my own kit is the way to go. I'm going to tryto piece together varios parts from vendors while making sure they all work. The kit isn't the difficult part, its the EMS mojo that eludes me at the mmoent. On one hand I want to have a significant amount of control over the engine, but on the other hand I want to be able to optimise the engine to meet the power and reliability goals and then "set it and forget it." This little experience has shed some new light on a few things for me. I expect that you all will be hearing alot from me about some plans I have in the infancy stages now. Hustler, I didn't know there was a MS PnP for the 2002?
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:30 PM   #16
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If bang for buck and street driving are your goals, you might want to revisit your HP goals. Like Hustler said, 275-300RWHP is a FAST car that WILL break stuff. Without a lot of suspension and aero mods, the power isn't even that useable.

If you can live in the 200-225 range, the project becomes really easy and reliable without a lot of expense. Just saying. I'm doing 10psi and 200RWHP. It's a DD on a long commute. Reliability so far has been nearly perfect (I did have to replace a Hobbs switch on the WI system). It's a blast to drive.

If you are deadset on BIG power and lots of mods, you should look at V-8 kits too.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:39 AM   #17
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First off Happy Holiday Season to you all from Afghanistan.
I realize that 270 whp is alot of power for a small car. This comes from the concept in my head for this build. I want to create my idea of how the miata should've come from the factory. In my head the price point would've been around the 40k range. The concept I'm using is alot like the Lotus. Basically the car would be a track-ready GT with an interior. I think the V8 is a great option, but too much $$, FM wants around 40k for the build. The goal with the rebuild is to build a motor that can withstand 350hp, I would assume around >25psi. Use the GT2860R rather than the GT3071R for streetability and an EMS capable of handling different qualities of fuel. Basically its should be a motor capable of 350hp but detuned to 270hp for streetability and variances in fuels and conditions. Am I leaving power on the table, sure just like the STi and EVO and G35/37 hide power in the tune to assure streetability. The fun part for me isn't getting the power package in line, its going to be the suspension and aero. Mazda left ALOT of the aero out of the equation and suspension is so subjective it'll probably take a while to dial in settings appropriate for MOST conditions with that much power. I will definietly be posting a build thread for this creature on here and m.net. Please keep the comments, suggestions and opinions coming I appreciate you all. Happy Holidays mcs6979
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Old 12-24-2011, 10:48 AM   #18
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Roger that.

Get out the checkbook.
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:14 PM   #19
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What EMS were you using to control the Eclipse? Or was it on bandaids? I've got my Miata running on a 1g DSM ecu/harness and ECMLink...works great, drives like stock, gives you full control over the engine and can trigger external devices as well.
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:56 PM   #20
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Bandaids was using the AVC-R and AFC. Seemes like the way to go back then but quite immature now. You have a DSM ECU running the BP? You have given me the idea to possibly dropping in a MIVEC 4G63. It already produces the power I'm looking for and has room to grow. Plus the 4G63's are pretty stout, very matured design and the EVO 9 motors were great. Hmmm the possibilities.
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