FM stroker alternative? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,296
Total Cats: 22
Default FM stroker alternative?

Does anyone know if someone has tried to put together a cheap alternative to the FM stroker design? I'm sure the biggest issue is the crank, since it's a custom design and can't be cheap.
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #2
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Why not just go FE3 instead?
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 05:05 PM   #3
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,370
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

What do you consider to be cheap?
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 05:20 PM   #4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,296
Total Cats: 22
Default

Cheaper than 5 grand.
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 05:29 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Why not just go FE3 instead?
This is the cheap option. If running a non-miata block is an option.

Isnt there some other company that has a stroker setup? But under 5k? Good luck even getting a standard boost build for that cheap if you're paying someone for assembly.

There's always DIY, have a stock crank offset ground (my gut says 4mm is a lot though), and find an off the shelf rod with the new correct big end diameter to at least order bearing from, maybe it'll be the right length, else you'll be ordering custom, and get custom pistons.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 05:34 PM   #6
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

There's some company doing it for like 2 grand iirc

we discussed it last year I think
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 06:13 PM   #7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,296
Total Cats: 22
Default

I figure I can do all the work myself. I have everything except transmission tools, I just figured someone may have already done the legwork. Sadly, a search has turned nothing up so far..
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 08:21 PM   #8
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,370
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Isnt there some other company that has a stroker setup?
Maruha's 2044cc (not 2.1L as they advertise it) stroker is ~$5000USD. There are no other kits available that are any cheaper...yet.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 09:29 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cromwell CT
Posts: 1,107
Total Cats: 48
Default

you could get some custom rods from someone that is not carrillo for cheaper, and maybe talk to moldex directly about the crank, and you can get the same pistions from weisco directly without the FM tax. maybe be able to get it for 4500.

IMO the .2L of displacement doesn't justify the 5k. You are never gonna break the stock crank. No one on this forum is going to break the stock crank ( with proper tuning). You dont need a billet crank untill you start breaking 650hp maybe even 750.

And what are you gonna gain ? an extra 25-50 ftlbs? For 5 grand its not worth it.
ctdrftna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 09:31 PM   #10
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

You can drop in an FE3 for under 2 there's a handful of those on here
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 09:34 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdrftna View Post
yYou are never gonna break the stock crank. No one on this forum is going to break the stock crank ( with proper tuning). You dont need a billet crank untill you start breaking 650hp maybe even 750.

And what are you gonna gain ? an extra 25-50 ftlbs? For 5 grand its not worth it.
Thats why I suggested an offset ground stock crank. You would need to do that math (and by that I mean simulation) as the 4+mm reduction in diameter will noticeably reduce the strength and stiffness of the crank.

The gain is more for the spool. The other turbo miata I've driven has an FM stroker and a disco potato on an FMII setup, it feels like the turbo really isnt there. I havent tuned my boost control enough to really see if 'stroker 99-00 + normal turbo' is better than VVT + EFR. My gut says the better turbo and VVT is going to be better than the stroker, at the very least I will be winning in the transients.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #12
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Centennial, CO
Posts: 672
Total Cats: 20
Default

McCully Racing Motors- Don't want a V8? How about a 2.0?

Still have yet to hear of anyone actually running one though.
karter74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 09:41 PM   #13
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,197
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

yep, that's the one I was talking about.

3k for the really simple version looks like.

I still don't see how its worth it, even at 3k
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 11:41 PM   #14
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cromwell CT
Posts: 1,107
Total Cats: 48
Default

Yeah F**K sleeving. Nothing but a problem waiting to happen. The whole greatness of our motor is the stout iron block. Why on earth would you put a F**king sleeve in it. Might as well buy a honda and actually make power.
ctdrftna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 12:38 AM   #15
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Wait is your end power goal around 200? Because then you don't need to build a 1.8, you can just swap in a stock running one and boost it.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 01:00 AM   #16
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,370
Total Cats: 1,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdrftna View Post
And what are you gonna gain ? an extra 25-50 ftlbs? For 5 grand its not worth it.
That's really subjective, though. No offense, but I know for a fact that you don't care about low-end torque - I've seen your dyno graph. For someone who's got an EFR6258 and wants to add another 100whp without sacrificing any low-end, a stroker would let them jump to an EFR6758 or a 7163, make the same low-end torque, and add a lot of power up top. They might consider the extra ~$3k in the engine an acceptable price tag to get that mixture of characteristics. There are people out there who spend big, big bucks on naturally aspirated motors because they want a specific set of characteristics out of it. You don't have to understand or agree with those people (although I do), but you do have to at least acknowledge that they exist.

Comparing a sleeved BP block to a Honda block is just stupid. The Honda block is an open deck aluminum block, while a sleeved BP would still be a closed deck iron block.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 12:12 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 2,791
Total Cats: 71
Default

I agree with the boring via sleeving. If the sleeving is done properly there shouldnt be any issues with it.

The fact being that increasing the displacement via bore will allow you to keep some of the engines desire to rev out like its stock but give you more power. I realize that longer stroke generally means more torque lower in the rpm range, but I prefer to have similar engine behavior to stock. once boosted the difference gap in power becomes more of a moot point.


If i were looking for more displacement for the right reasons, this would be my first choice vs a stroker or offset ground cranks. You could likely have someone sleeve it without it being the guys in the above link for cheaper. You would just have to do some leg work in sourcing some sleeves of the proper material and finding a shop thats both willing and competant enough to do this work.

Check out this thread on honda-tech to see how sleeving works in the open deck hondas.... its more or less the same process for all engines, but there would be less to worry about with the closed deck design.
Block Sleeving and parts fabrication - Honda-Tech
shlammed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 01:26 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,898
Total Cats: 109
Default

I kind of like the idea of bore, sleeve, and stroke personally. That is, if it were in my budget.
miata2fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 02:11 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,579
Total Cats: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
I kind of like the idea of bore, sleeve, and stroke personally. That is, if it were in my budget.
I feel like this would be glorious.
Ryan_G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 02:16 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,579
Total Cats: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Maruha's 2044cc (not 2.1L as they advertise it) stroker is ~$5000USD. There are no other kits available that are any cheaper...yet.
Did anyone else catch this?
Ryan_G is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mazdaspeed 2.0L C-Spec ITB motor w/ accessories graexodus Miata parts for sale/trade 9 10-25-2015 04:34 PM
An Old Driver but a newbie in Miata Patriarca Meet and Greet 17 10-13-2015 02:34 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM
MSM alt question ihiryu MEGAsquirt 7 09-20-2015 10:04 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:04 PM.