Forged 1.6 Engine build!
 

Hi all,

I am currently in the process of building a forged 1.6 engine.
I have always wanted to build an engine, and after buying my MX5, with worn out piston rings, i have my opportunity to actually do it.

I am aiming for around 250-300WHP in the end with turbo, but i will probably start a bit lower, say 200, and get used to the car at that kind of power level, then turn it up a bit :naughty:

Started off with a 66K 1.6 from eBay, so I have a good reasonably low mileage motor to start with. I have already torn down the block, head and removed pretty much everything, and bagged it all up in lil baggies.

During the process of teardown however, I managed to put a tiny dink in the crankshaft by dropping a bolt onto it!
machine shop said that most people wouldn't have even spotted it, and he can polish it out, no worries. So that is getting done at the moment.
Also, during cleanup of the head, I also discovered a nice meaty scratch under the head gasket leftovers, straight from mazda! Currently getting the head skimmed because of that, and also cleaned.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...09fcbbbdee.jpghttps://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4c748be4c7.jpg

I was going to reuse the stock pistons, with forged rods in order to keep costs lower. But while costing up getting new rings, getting my current pistons coated, wrist pins pushed out, and into the new rods.
It turns out, that forged pistons actually work out at pretty much the same price. £450~ to reuse current pistons, and £450~ for supertech forged ones posted from america including import taxes.

The only extra cost there would be I have to get my cylinders bored out .5mm, but that shouldnt be much more than £60 extra.

EDIT:
HOWEVER, i just noticed that the 1.6 forged pistons, only list 90-93. i know you guys in the US didn't get the NB with 1.6 engines.
im not sure if there was actually any differences between the early and late models combustion chambers/stroke. I know they are the same size bore.

i notice that flyin miata listed their forged pistons for the 1.6 as NA/NB and in the additional info it lists 90-93.
so i guess it's fine?
https://www.flyinmiata.com/wiseco-1-...o-pistons.html < Flying miata pistons
https://fab9tuning.com/supertech-forged-pistons/ < Supertech pistons


I'm currently in the process of getting my machine work done and out the way, and I will be ordering up parts soon!

I know its a bit overkill for the power I plan to run, but why not do it while I'm in here!
What does everyone think of my parts list?

Forged Conrods £370.00
Supertech pistons £460
New Clutch with flywheel £320.00
Oil samwich plate £60.00
Oil pressure sender kit £90.00
Cambelt cover middle £31.00
Cambelt cover lower £32.00
Full engine Gasket set £230
Head studs £100
Water pump £58
Antifreeze £27
Oil temp gauge £35
Oil Temp Sensor £15
Oil return adaptor £5
Oil return Cap £4
ACL Race Main bearings £67
ACL thrust Washers £8
ACL Race Conrod Bearings £44
Uprated Oil pump £255

Do you have any legal limitation which made you stick to 1.6L?

Probably really uncommon to find a 1.8 there, so likely expensive.

Nah, they are not uncommon to find, they are more expensive than the 1.6 though.

legal wise, no limits on going to the 1.8 that i am aware of, emissions would be an issue i imagine.
Mostly it's to to with insurance, i'm only 21, and insurance is crazy expensive over here. my mx5 insurance cost me an engine swap as well as turbo and other mods would likely send my insurance up much more than i would be comfortable paying.

its also more of a hassle with paperwork! i just couldnt be arsed with it all. i can make the power i want with a 1.6, so why bother with the extra hassle!

save some cash using EBAY rods..

Really? I have heard questionable things.

They seem a bit good to be true to be honest, I feel like it would be something I would worry about. Something as important as rods i feel is worth spending a bit extra on.

How would the insurance know you have a 1.8L?

How does emissions become an issue when you're going turbo in the first place?

I'm confused, but I digress.

Looking forward to more pictures.

Not sure how US Insurance works but here you have to declare any mods you have done to your car to the insurance company. If you don't, your insurance will be invalidated in the event of an accident if they find out you had undeclared modifications.
​​​​​​
Emissions wise, yea true. But oh well hahaha

duplicate

I just don't know how they'd know how to check for the displacement. If you don't tell them, they won't know to look right?

It's your cash, but I've had Eagle rods (from EBay) in my boosted block for more than 4 years without a worry.

I have Eagle rods in my engine as well.

Yea, i know, its just simply not worth the risk for me!
I can make the power I want with a 1.6, so why bother.
I can't be arsed with telling the DVLA that the displacement has changed either.

Huh, well that is a the cost for eagle rods... Admittedly not from eBay, from a company called H-tune. Fab9tubing eagle rods work out about the same price after tax and shipping.

Eagle is Eagle no matter where you get them.

Some run the "china-bay" no name rods, they can be ok for entry level, mild street strip use.
I have run them in the past with no problems in different engine builds, Just make sure to check the big and little ends for size and install decent ARP cap screws and you'll be ok

Also, if you will be doing more basic street driving than racing, use the basic ACL ( I prefer King) main bearings so you have better embedablity of micro particals in the mains, race bearings should be kept on the rods for impact loading under boost

True, but i dont seem to be able to find eagle rods on ebay over here.
if anyone wants to send me a link with international postage i would me much thankful.

Eh, i will be tracking the car and driving it hard, so i will just stick with race ones i think! it will be getting very regular oil changes

can anyone confirm that those pistons will work however?
i dont particularly want to waste my money ordering them and boring out my cylinders if they are not going to work.

So, here is some more pictures from the build room. aka my tiny little shed.

Started off looking like this:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a1f4d5d7fc.jpghttps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2e1e5cec53.jpg
Got everything i was not actively working on wrapped up, or in little plastic boxes/baggies
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...49d98a4b02.jpg
Painted the block an off-white colour, because why not.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9aa2b60482.jpghttps://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...20d002cf75.jpg
And then last night i finished clear-coating my valve cover.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e2d318b3f4.jpghttps://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...303660fca1.jpg

EDIT:
Also, what are the opinions on oil pump shims? should i go for the recommended of 2? or just one to be a bit safer?
this will be street driven, not daily, but certainly fairly often.

Im going to ignore all that you said, mostly just want to say welcome back BogusSVO. Been a long time since you have been on. Hopefully things are going well for you.

No name EBAY rods checking in here, came with 3/8 ARP 2000 hardware. lots of abuse. no problems.

Either will work as long as you get the proper bore size.

Keep in mind that Wiseco is a high expansion piston and the ST is a low.

the way I normally get block work done is have the block rough bored to within .003-.005 of recommended bore finish size then order pistons, then have the block finished honed to the pistons and set PTW

Hey Shuiend, All is well, been stuck in the realm of domestics for a while, n missed being on the forums.. so now that things have settled I have a bit of time to cruise around

Interesting... there is a fair price gap between ebay rods and eagle ones.

£215 for ebay "MaxSpeedingRods"
£320 for Eagle rods from fab9 tuning I just worked out with import tax minus shipping.

To be honest I would just feel better paying the extra for the peace of mind!

Ok, awesome. good to know.
yea that is the main reason I am looking at supertec is that reason alone. I have read good things about their expansion characteristics.
cheers :D

What makes you think that they arent ALL made in china? from my research SCAT and Eagle are. So are my china ebay rods. Not trying to argue here, just provoking thought.

Bogus SVU, i am also glad you are back. you were long gone when I joined, but your old posts about engine tech were and still are, awesome.

well im not suggesting that they are not all made in china. problem comes in where a company wants to uphold their standing as making good and reliable products, and chinese companies tend to go as cheap as they can get away with for "good enough" reliability. who cares if 1 in 1000 rods break before they reach their rating, they are not likely to get any fallout because of it.

i have heard decent things about cheap ebay rods, but my brain likes to worry about things, at least if i spend a little extra i wont have to worry about a critical part of my engine bend/breaking and causing the whole thing to go Kaput.

I just purchased those maxspeeding rods and they all weighed the same with arp 2000 bolts in them.

Just spoken to my machine shop, to bore it the cylinders they and to acid dip, clean bore and then deck the head.

I asked how much just a hone and pressure clean would be and he said £150.
Which still seems a bit on the high side.

So I'm not sure what to do now. I might use the stock pistons and get them coated like I was going to before.... Hmmmm

Seems a bit on the high side compared to what?

you think an engine build is cheap?

have you priced shop equipment?

Lets see.....

Clean a block.. $50
Bore/hone $15 per cylinder
use a torque plate $30
Deck block $70
grind crank $100
Balance rotating assembly $200

That is average pricing in my part of the country, its more in other and less in still others, all dependent on what equipment is used and how many shops are in the area

Now I have heard up in North Carolina that some shops still bore and hone for $8 a cylinder
and you can get a head belt surfaced for $20

I can see your over the puddle from most of us here in the US of A, and pricing is going to be at a different rate

DO NOT ORDER FROM FAB9

They may have the lowest price but they suck to deal with.

Yea, no i know. Not sure what i was comparing it to in my head. thinking about it, its really not unreasonable.
you know when you just get an arbitrary number stuck in your head!

Ok, i have been told this twice now.
And i am all ears, can you point me to an alternative that has the parts i was going to order from Fab9 and ships internationally?
i was going to order my:
uprated oil pump
Rods
Pistons
ARP main studs
ARP head studs

if someone can point me somewhere that has decent pricing on those and will ship to me, that would be great :bigtu:

Ebay or FM over fab for pistons.

Anything else you need is at 949racing and trackspeed engineering as pointed out below VV

Trackspeed engining.

Before you start buying parts you need to recognize some items:
1) look at some dyno graphs posted here and notice the difference in the torque curves from 1.6 and 1.8 engines.
2) spending money on your block whether you stick with 1.6 or be smart and get 1.8 is an absolute necesity. You are going to be spending over 2k on parts so cheaping out on machine work is a no go.
3) to meet your power goals you will need a solid turbo system - do you know this cost? I have been encouraged to understand what happens when you exceed 250 hp and things start to break and items need to be upgraded.
4) if you are tracking the car being at your aforementioned power goals you need to be ready for some additional costs like turbo locking hardware from Trackspeed, coolant reroute, aluminum radiator, and understand the effect of heat soak on your parts at the track.

Everyone is willing to help here but I think you need to read some more stickies and build threads before you start buying parts. You could be in for an $8000 build.

Hope that helped.

I just paid 150 to have my cylinders honed, at a pro engine shop. They only build race car engines. I felt like I got a great deal.

If that sounds expensive to you, you're in for a big surprise. My total for JUST machine work for my fully built engine was close to $1,200 maybe $1,500. I dont know, I stopped keeping track. Head work, block, crank, rod and ring fitting.

@ryansmoneypit... you can drop $1500 on the head alone if you chose too, that is if you want a full tilt boogie woogie head

But depending on the shop and equipment, thats not a bad price

OHH yeah, I was just looking at labor at the machine shop, And no porting. Throw in all the parts- grotesque money for a 9-5 guy.

1) and 2) im keeping the 1.6. you wont convince me otherwise. this car came with a 1.6, it was registered as a 1.6 and is staying a 1.6. im aware of the torque and power differences. :)
i am also aware that i will have to spend money on my block, and the rest of the car!
3)i'll be honest with you, i have not priced up my turbo system yet. i do not intend to turbo this car until next year, probably in the summer. im aware it will be expensive, i have also stated earlier in the thread that i dont intend to start off at 250 or above, i'll start probably around 200 and then after a bit turn it up.
4)i have already costed up most of the additionals for tracking the car and just general upgrades, coilovers, upgraded radiator, rollbar, coolant reroute. and a bunch of other stuff. will also need a diff at some point as well.
as i say i am new to the world of aftermarket stuff. i have fixed cars and maintained them, but i am still getting the hang of aftermarket and expensive mods!
im not a car noob by any means, but this is my first engine and car build, so i have a very limited idea of what to expect, especially when it comes to machine shop work!

im expecting this car in total to cost me around £6.5K~. £3K of that being the engine build (current price i have sketched out is £2.9K with that additional work), £2.5K~ of turbo supporting mods (wideband, ecu, rad and stuff) and suspension stuff and £1K~ for the turbo, intercooler and exhaust
not sure if that is unreasonable expectation or not? from the costing i have done it sounds pretty reasonable.

Yea, ok. thats fair. i will probably just go ahead and do it. im not sure where the number came from in my head, but after actually thinking about it it's not that bad.
I am a bit salty that i'll have to repaint my block though :squint: i guess its my own fault though for painting it and then deciding to go over!

i going to my machine shop tonight to pick up head and crank, i 'll have a chat with him there. he did say to me on the phone that he can't push the wrist pin off the pistons as it will damage them, if that is the case then i will 100% just bite the bullet and go for both pistons and rods.

yes, for the most part, press fit wrist pins are a 1 shot deal.
https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...ce-rods-65019/

Glad to see my link list still works

:rolleyes:


:confused:

:giggle:

:rofl:

Just wait till you're in the thick of it. Painting a block is going to be the least of your worries.

Oh ok. fair enough. i was under the impression they you could push them off as they are only shrunk into the rods.
Ha, i know... i know....

You would be correct, but you have to support the piston to push the pin out of the rod. and more times than not, you deform, crack or just out right bust the piston

Psyber pretty much nailed it, 100%, with each of those emojii.

Track turbo miata....8k minimum.
In a year, paint will be the absolute last worry.

Fair play. just spoke to my machine shop about it. going to go ahead and bore the block properly and go forged.

ha, yea i know. it should be a fun ride eh?

We'll see, i have no doubts you are right!
Still need to cost up a few more bits and bobs, and then wait to see what throws a spanner in the works!

the low compression you will build for the turbo, will make the car sluggish as an NA

I know, i dont really intend to run this engine without a turbo, the current engine in the car will be fine until i am ready :)
maybe a few weeks to break the engine in and make sure its running good.

Have you looked into mkturbo?

I have had a quick look, but i'm not sure if they would ship internationally.

I'll probably be sourcing a used turbo from another car, rather than a new chinese turbo anyway.

Hey, has anyone heard of "no limit motorsport" they seem to have most of the parts I want, and at very good prices?

They have good reviews online as far as I can see, and offer reasonable rates on international shipping.

So you have not asked him, correct? Damn dude, have you read anything on here about No Limit Motorsports? I dont think I have seen one single build on this site using anything from them. MKTurbo- Lots of extremely satisfied customers.

It appears he's already made up his mind despite the amount of hand holding we've been doing. Seeking validation for insecurities of decisions made with resistance to the input offered from the hive mind, well, there's only so much we can do. I'm just going to sit back and see what happens.

Nope. I'm not doing turbo parts right now. im doing engine rebuild and then i will think about turbo parts.

Sorry i've not had a chance to look through a lot of builds, I have been busy with work and other stuff. most of my spare time has been spent working on little car bits or finding where i can get the parts that i want.

as far as i can tell MKTurbo are selling turbo bits only, which is fine, but right now I am mainly concerned with my engine build. i'll look at turbo parts when i have completed my engine partslist. which is pretty soon i'd imagine.

so does that mean that people dont like NLM? or do they just not use them?

as far as i can see they are well reviewed outside of here on a general google search. they have a nice and easy parts browser as well.

anything look funny to you in this picture, besides the fact that its an ebay piece of crap. Look close, whats wrong here?
EDIT: now I see the tricky small print... Its still a way overpriced boat anchor.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...60e51e3456.png

Hey man, im not sure what you are trying to get at.
The 1.6 is staying, not sure if that is what you are talking about?

I wouldnt be posting stuff on a forum if I was not looking for advice.
Anything I import from the US gets import tax. 20%VAT and then 2.7% Duty on top (for most car parts, some things are upto 4%)
making things rather expensive.

I dont seem to be able to find a decent dealer for MX5 parts in the UK, apart from maybe htune, who i discovered yesterday.
their prices are Ok, but if i can get the same parts cheaper, including import tax from USA, then why not? does NLM have a bad rep around here?

I thought Fab9 was decent, Greg from the car passion channel has used and recommended them as a good place to find parts. but according to you guys they are awful, fine. i'm willing to listen, i dont want to get ripped off.
I have found somewhere else and I am asking if they are regarded as decent? if not, then I will just proceed to by my parts from htune.

no one has pointed out any flaws in my parts list line up?
as far as I am concerned that is the parts i will be using for my build.

I'm going to be getting my bores bored out to .5 oversize and slapping in forged rods and forged pistons.
I have had my head skimmed and tanked, I have had my crank polished and ready to go.
The only thing I can see left to do machine wise is on the block, boring out, a light deck and clean, and then slapping all the parts together.

i'm going to lap my valves in tonight, if they lap in Ok, then I dont need a valve job, if they dont then I will be getting one.

I'm not sure if I am missing something... please let me know if you have any issues with my current plans for my engine?
I am aware that my costings for turbo bits is a little unrealistic, but hey ho I'll roll with the punches.

Stop using terms like" ill slap this part on" it makes you sound uneducated. There are only a few times when slapping can be used around here. None of them have to do with installing parts.

NLM. If a shop / parts wharehouse cant even be bothered to use a picture of the actual parts they are selling.........how gawd damn lazy are they? Its garbage dude, total shit garbage. To put that kit into perspective, I just sold a complete ARTech hot side with a 2560, for 1,100 bucks. Actual real deal quality stuff.

Its about to get ugly around here...quit posting,quit having machine work done, quit buying parts and start reading.

Instead of people helping, they are just going to start checking this thread out to see what type of retarded shit is going on. dont let that happen, it is within your control.

No limit motorsports is a fine company. The pistons in my previous built motor came from them. They have been sponsors on here on and off over the years. I'm betting you could get them to price match fab9.

They are just a parts reseller though and not Miata specific.

parts re-seller yes, fine. turbo kit -no.Unless there is something I dont know about them.

For sake of transparency, I think that I may have confused this thread briefly for another. There has been a crop up of new members who are all posting excitedly about their future endeavors with the cars. Most of them unfounded ambitions with poor research and poor planning. The folks on this forum who have stuck it out the longest have had numerous failures. I made many failures myself, coming from a 1.6L as well. There's a serious wealth of knowledge, albeit sometimes buried, on this site.

"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing on the shoulder of giants."

Most of the work has been done for you. I'll admit, you are facing a bit more of a cost constraint due to import taxes and being the subject to local service costs for machining. However, the knowledge that we're trying to pass still holds water. We know what works and what doesn't because we've tried it. We know where there's a gap in the market and a lot of folks on this very forum have stepped up to fill in that void for the community. MKTurbo, SADFab, 949Racing, Trackspeed, Singulär, Kraken, KMiata, Hawley Performance (TheBandit).... all these folks are ACTIVE here. They are all contributing to a better and brighter future for any miata you could want to build.

To grasp at straws looking for a kit or even products by vendors you don't see mentioned often is simply going against the grain of collective experience. You can do whatever you want, and it's a great service to prove us wrong, but as a whole we've tried nearly everything with various degrees of success.

We know you're enthusiastic about this project. We know you're dealing with cost constraints. To do it the cheapest way with quality takes a certain level of luck. To do it right with the intention of not fixing mistakes in the future will take a certain level of financial commitment. This will end up saving you money believe it or not.


I apologize for my prior remark, but I still think what has been said is valid. You've got some old timers coming out of the woodwork commenting on your thread. You've got people who have been in and out of these cars with multiple motors, and turbo setups, and coil setups and transmission and driveline arrangements giving advice. Trust us, just a little bit.

If MKturbo is not a consideration, might I be so bold and recommend taking a look at this thread. It may have something relatively affordable, being developed by a member here and should have some products that may fit your plan.

https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-par...anifold-93586/

Happy hunting.

Thanks, your opinion is valued. truly it is, i get it.
however. I do not intend to buy any turbo kit from them, so i dont really get what you are talking about. you even say a post down from this one I am only looking at engine parts right, so why are you giving me shit for looking at branded parts, when you are purely talking about their poor quality turbo kits? i will probably order my engine parts from them, as they appear to be offering the best deal for the parts i want.
I will not be, based on feedback you and others have given ordering a turbo kit from them!

things are not going to get ugly, I will not stop posting. I will, however find some time to do some more reading. but i still really dont see what everyone is getting in a tissy about, just because i have found another reseller than the ones people normally use?
Oh and also, i'll slap parts on if i want to. Pretty sure that's a british thing anyway, that's quite a common saying here...
Thank you. I will see if they will price match, if they will then happy days :likecat:

Hey man, i understand. thank you for that.

I get that you want to support the company's that have been created by people in the community and support the community. and i like that.
but at the end of the day, I will be buying my parts from whoever offers me the best deal for the parts I want. where i order them from should not matter, they will be the same parts weather i order from 949 or NLM.
i came here to ask about my parts list and for advice on what i would need doing to my block and head, not to be shouted at for "using the wrong parts dealer" parts are parts, a supertech piston from 949 will be exactly the same from NLM.

Please, i welcome advice and feedback, but when i dont seem to be getting advice about my parts, only about where i am buying them from, that is not really going to affect my decisions on what parts i am sticking in my engine.

Parts are parts. i just want to know which ones i should be buying and if they make makes sense.

seriously guys, i do want feedback and help!

Toward the last part of my post I was trying to lean on the selection of a turbo kit/system. Parts are parts, you can get them wherever you want. But if you value service and support after the purchase....you will get what you pay for with some vendors offering miata parts at discounted prices.

Case and point: Downmented bought an AEM EMS4 stand alone with PnP harness and 4 bar map sensor from Fab9 which runs about $1,189+ship. Never got a basemap, despite promises made. Because of the lack of support and other standing issues, he ended up selling it for 48% of it's value and switched to a different system. This unit has never seen voltage. This also slips under the radar so Fab9 still continues to sell parts cheap, but never follows through with customer service where it's needed.

Yes when you support the community, the community supports you. Get whatever pistons you want from wherever but when you have questions about ring gaps or piston to wall specs, be prepared to dig around build threads because drop ship wholesalers will not have this answer for you especially if mixing and matching piston and ring manufacturers like many of us do for longevity. If you buy from 949 or TSE, you're an email and PM away from the answer because they eat sleep and breath this car, plus you've paid for the support that comes from buying products through them. They have built more motors and raced more events in Miata's throughout the year than No Limit Motorsports, THMotorsports, and other aftermarket automotive commerce sites.


For very generic things like an EFR supercore or gauges, I've used THMotorsports with great success at great prices. But these are oddball items and not necessarily miata dependent.

I meant only as a parts reseller are they ok. I would not touch that turbo setup from them with a 10 foot pole. I dealt with Adam there and he was great to work with. This was 7 years ago though, so things might have changed.

^^^This! I just bought my engine parts from FAB9Tuning. Did they come on time? Nope. Did I get customer feedback when I called and emailed over and over? Nope. Do I have the right parts: yes i have confirmed and cross referenced everything. Will I get any help if I have a question: ABSOLUTELY NOT. So when people on this forum tell you to do something a certain way you should listen. I am so surprised this group of people has continued to help you and act nice about some of your comments regarding what to do. It has been spelled out for you over and over.

By the way I am sure shuiend(MKTURBO) would ship internationally, but probably contact you personally and tell you what it would cost and not feed you a like of crap like some other vendors you are exploring might...FYI throughout my time here he has given me a lot of time and feedback on my decisions with respect to my car. That I am thankful for and everyone here, once again, can help you you just need to listen and do a little more reading. Don't ask until you have read multiple sources that tell you at least something.

Trust me. I did it and still had much to learn. Good things take time.

I don't ship internationally. Costs are way to much due to the size of my boxes. Last time I checked it was adding something like a minimum of $500 to ship, not including customs, or VAT, or any of that silliness.