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Old 12-02-2009, 04:33 PM   #21
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I vote 1.8 upgrade. You should be able to find a decent low mileage 1.8 locally for pretty cheap.

Edit: Is it still running on 3 cyls or did you fix that?

Edit Deaux: Re-read your OP and retract my previous edit/question.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:40 PM   #22
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Indeed, origional 3 cylinder diagnosis was done in the dark before I looked at the oil, and was born from my previous difficulties with my COPs. Would it be worth it to drain and refill the oil for the drive to try and save it? Or am I completely screwed in terms of getting this car to the garage 30 miles away.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Cuelball, yes I did reuse it when I took my engine out, although I never took the head off, just the oil pan and valve cover. I never thought my overheating problems were HG gasket related. Or are you saying the over heating warped the head. That's another issues altogether that I hadn't thought of...
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I didn't know you hadn't removed the head at that point. Warped head would certainly be a concern for me with those overheating issues you had. That it didn't start leaking until just now makes me shake my head though.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:10 PM   #24
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Curly, if the head is indeed warped, buy my tested and cleaned head I have for sale with the FelPro gasket. Let me know if you are interested and I will take some pictures. I will check in the garage when I get home to grab the gasket.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:21 PM   #25
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Fel-pro's fairly reputable, and their head gasket is only $48,
I ask as sometimes the same product varies from place to place.

Is the headgasket the one kind of cardboard and has like a metal frame design, or is it the one that is completely metal with four layers held together by rivets?
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:05 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
I didn't know you hadn't removed the head at that point. Warped head would certainly be a concern for me with those overheating issues you had. That it didn't start leaking until just now makes me shake my head though.
I'll bring it to Dan Hall's to get checked, don't want anything going wrong right after I switch the HG. Assuming I don't find destroyed pistons.

Quote:
Is the headgasket the one kind of cardboard and has like a metal frame design, or is it the one that is completely metal with four layers held together by rivets?
I haven't actually bought the HG yet, I assume they're always the same. 90-93 is the composite cardboardish HG, and the 1.8's are all metal. Or the split is between NA/NB, not sure. Either way this engine is on it's 4th HG and they've all looked the same. No I don't blow up engines that much, one was only on for 1 mile and was replaced when the head had to come back off.

Update: I took my chances, drained the oil, refilled and drove it to the GF's. I need to drain the water/oil and unbolt the head, otherwise it's ready to come off for inspection. Oil fill cap and valve cover had some white grease looking substance in it, like steamed oil water. Cams looks great still, I'm hoping I didn't do an obscene amount of damage. GF was following behind me the whole time with the engine lift in her ExTerra, and reported zero smoke.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:00 AM   #27
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Pictures for your delight.

Left to right, #4 and #3.
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Left to right #2 and #1.
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Bottom of head.
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The next five photos are pretty obvious, all take from passenger side so far left is #4, right is #1.
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Head gasket damage between 3&4
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Slight damage between 3&2, you can tell since #3 isn't completely round anymore.
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Damage between 2&1. It's hard to see, but it's similar to the damage between 3&4. This photo also shows my grievance with the head gasket. The hole in the block is tear drop shaped, where as the hole in the gasket is round. You can see how the tear drop shaped hole blasted the head gasket apart here. I hate to think about how much of this has come loose and circulated around my cooling system. WTF?
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So it looks like between 1&2 and 3&4 the HG blew. You can see in the pictures of the gasket that it's nice and damaged. 1,2 and 3 pistons look the same, fairly black, while #4 is a little cleaner. It was full of water though from the car being tilted up, I had just soaked it up and wiped the piston clean before taking these pictures. How do you guys clean all the HG gunk off the block? I'm probably going to bring the head in for a flatness check and have them clean it, but I'm not sure what to do with the block, it's caked on. I suppose a lot of razor blade and stone time is in order. I'm not sure I need to do anything beyond replacing the HG. Unless there's massive damage to one of the pistons (#4 if anything no doubt) that I can't see from the top (which I suppose it quite possible) than I'm not sure what else could of been wrong. Maybe it was just this gasket's time.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:53 AM   #28
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yeah brake parts cleaner and a brillo to start and then a razor blade to finish. my 1.6 hg was all metal i got it from FM
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:00 AM   #29
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Bueno, hadn't thought of brake cleaner, gracias.
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Old 12-06-2009, 03:11 AM   #30
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Curly, let me know if you want this HG, it's a Felpro 9691 PT. New in the plastic, $35 shipped and it's yours, compared to $48.99 http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productd...tNumber=9691PT And let me know if you have any interest in this tested and cleaned complete head I have in the garage.
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Old 12-06-2009, 03:33 AM   #31
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I also have a new timing belt kicking around, unsure of the brand, but can throw it in for $10 more.

googled it and it's a Gates Unitta timing belt. it is brand new.
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:33 AM   #32
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One more question I thought of, are the metal head gaskets I've seen on FM and Boundry's site worth the extra $40-$50 for my turbo application?
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:43 AM   #33
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mine was only like 100 bucks i think been a long time yeah a mls hg is worth getting, i would make sure you local place cant get one for you before ordering out though you never know they might have a source.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:23 AM   #34
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curly, was that the factory original HG?

Magna- what are the advantages over those all metal HG vs. OE ?
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:32 AM   #35
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well i was under the impression all metal was oe, if it isnt you have to ask yourself if glorified rienforced cardbaord is enough for your motor. It isnt for mine, the strenght and uniform expansion/compression of a mls hg, or mls gasket of anykind is preferable in all aplications where you aren't holding back oil or water, under extreme laods and temperatures. I have often read that markp used to exclaim that our mls hg's would be good up to 500 hp no problem. I've nver regreted taking his advice in the past so why stop now.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:39 AM   #36
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sweet thanks Magna, i,ll start looking around for an all metal
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:08 AM   #37
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For cleaning the HG gunk off the block I used a razor blade and followed my work area immediately with the vacuum cleaner to suck up the gunk. Then I hit it with an oil stone to smooth everything back.
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:13 AM   #38
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well i was under the impression all metal was oe, if it isnt you have to ask yourself if glorified rienforced cardbaord is enough for your motor.
For the 1.8 engines, yes. The 1.6s got the glorified reinforced cardboard from the factory.

For those who are married to the idea that OEM is best, this presents a constant quandry for 1.6 owners. To install what was used originally, or to take Mazda's cue and accept the superiority of an MLS gasket...
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Old 12-06-2009, 02:03 PM   #39
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Thank you Joe, your quandary answered all my questions

What does MLS stand for anyways, multi layered steel? It would certainly be nice to not have to deal with the gunk anymore. Not that I plan on taking it apart again. But the consensus is go to steel, right? Any one recommend one? I was wrong about the price, FM's is F'ing $115, where as Boundry's is a Cometic gasket for $93.

railz, although this was an OEM gasket, this was not the factory gasket. Spun bearing at 60,000 resulted my dad and I rebuilding the engine, 10 miles later we had to take it apart due to a mistake on his part while assembling it, then a few years later my long nose crank pulley backed out and I had to tear it apart to replace that, and ended up doing rings and hg anyways, and that hg is (was) this one. It's now at 121,000. That 60,000 is just a guess though, it was years ago.
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Old 12-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #40
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I'm not going to argue that an MLS gasket is not superior to a composite gasket in its ability to hold a greater amount of power, however, I feel the need to point out a few things.

1. Both block and head surfaces need to be EXTREMELY clean to ensure a proper seal. I'm not saying that there havn't been cases of guys just slapping them on and never having an issue, but there is a very good chance of getting oil/water leaking by and mixing due to small imperfections in the finish on the head and/or block. If you don't believe me, head over to dsmtuners and ask around.

2. I look at headgaskets as my motor's fuse. How long does it honestly take to change one out? I'd rather pop a HG than bend a rod.

I guess I just don't see the point in spending twice as much money when a composite gasket is perfectly adequate. FWIW I've personally run 22psi on a 4g63 with a composite gasket without issues.
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