How to wire VVT engine on an NA
Hey guys, I just bought a 2001 engine and 6 speed transmission from ATANK. I know I will need some help wiring this engine harness to run on my NA.
The reason I am posting this is because I am a very visual person and have trouble comprehending how to wire things. I have read numerous posts but I will like to put everything on one and call it done. My intention is to take a lot of pictures during the process of wiring the VVT engine so other people like me can understand how to do it and have an informative thread to look at. I will be running a Reverend made Megasquirt with VVT tuning capabilities. -As you can see on these first pictures, ATANK did not cut the engine harness when he removed the engine, except for the main wires that go through the firewall to inside the car. Those wires are cut, but they were cut inside the car passenger compartment. You can also see that the VVT fuse box is there and even the wires that go to the battery are intact. Also the 6 speed tranny wires are all still hooked, I would like to use the 6 speed transmission connectors and not have to swap to the 5 speed NA connectors My question is, can i cut the wires inside my NA and splice most of the wires that came with the VVT to the NA harness? What is the easiest, most clean way to go about doing all the wiring? picture 1 http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg442...pg&res=landing picture 2 http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg849...pg&res=landing picture 3 http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg443...pg&res=landing picture 4 http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg7/s...pg&res=landing picture 5 http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg407...pg&res=landing picture 6 http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg801...pg&res=landing picture 7 http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg193...pg&res=landing |
7 Attachment(s)
ARRRG, i dont think the pictures work, here they are again.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1334542784 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1334542784 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1334542784 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1334542784 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1334542784 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1334542784 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1334542784 |
I get the idea that your plan is to somehow splice the cut '01 harness into your factory harness at one point, using the VVT fusebox and 6-speed wiring. This is a terrible, terrible idea, and it will create a TON of unnecessary work. Don't do it that way, no matter how much you think it's a good idea, and no matter how much others have told you to do it that way.
The easiest way to swap a VVT motor into an early chassis is to use as much of the original engine wiring as possible, and then add the incorrect bits last. I've done 3 or 4 of them now, and this is the method that involves the least amount of wiring alterations. The stuff that will remain the same:
The stuff you'll add:
I may have forgotten something here or there, so if you encounter something odd just shout out. In general the philosophy here is to keep your OEM wiring and sensors whenever possible, and just take bits and pieces from the 01+ harness as needed. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 864873)
I get the idea that your plan is to somehow splice the cut '01 harness into your factory harness at one point, using the VVT fusebox and 6-speed wiring. This is a terrible, terrible idea, and it will create a TON of unnecessary work. Don't do it that way, no matter how much you think it's a good idea, and no matter how much others have told you to do it that way.
The easiest way to swap a VVT motor into an early chassis is to use as much of the original engine wiring as possible, and then add the incorrect bits last. I've done 3 or 4 of them now, and this is the method that involves the least amount of wiring alterations. The stuff that will remain the same:
The stuff you'll add:
I may have forgotten something here or there, so if you encounter something odd just shout out. In general the philosophy here is to keep your OEM wiring and sensors whenever possible, and just take bits and pieces from the 01+ harness as needed. |
Savington, thank you very much for your How To. I think you answered all my questions. I usually try to search for answers instead of posting, but thanks for your patience and excellent explanation
|
Where are you getting power for all these sensors?
|
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 864906)
Where are you getting power for all these sensors?
|
Originally Posted by btabor
(Post 864915)
He said to get 12v power for the vvt from the injector harness and 12v power for the cam/crank sensor from the NA CAS connector. If I read it right
|
Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 864886)
/thread
|
You can also use the 12v from the CAS plug for the 12v for VVT. That is how I have mine wired up and it has had no problems.
|
Sorry to totally necro a thread, but I'm in the middle of a VVT swap into my '94 and confused as fuck. Thought it would be better to have this all in one thread.
Is the Savington approach outlined above still the best way to go? I know for Emilio's 95 they just cut a new hole in the firewall, but that's a lot more work than I'm willing to do right now. I feel like the guys in the MegaSquirt threads all want me to use 100% VVT donor wiring. How are you all "altering" the harness? Are you cutting and splicing inside the engine bay? I thought that was completely forbidden? I'm assuming that you're reusing EGR, purge, and other wires for things like the VVT solenoid. So, where (and what method) are you modifying your harness? I really, really, REALLY don't want my engine bay to look like this: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1359785841 |
Anyone who suggests any way other than what I've outlined above has not done their homework. I've done several of these swaps, and my way is the easiest and simplest way.
|
Thanks Andrew,
One more pedantic clarification: you're cutting and splicing in the engine bay? Are you soldering or crimping? Do you make your edits at the connector end, or back close to the firewall? I don't want to fuck this up. I know the details are minor, but I'd feel better knowing I did it exactly right rather than just wrong enough. Thanks! |
4 Attachment(s)
Is this a more acceptable look for you?
Im running SCCA autox and I dont really know what the intent of the wording of the wiring harness is in the rule book. SOme folks cut and splice the harness to add/rewire the VVT engine in but since the rulebook says no modifying of the harness as it is a separate component I tried not touching mine. Here's what I did do though. I put the cam sensor signal through the CAS wires by cutting off the CAS connector, not the wiring harness connector mind you. I then cut back enough of the plastic to expose the pins and soldered wires onto that to a pigtail that came with the donor VVT engine. Did the same with the connectors on the coils to wire in the VVT coils, took two evap vacuum solenoids and did the same for the VVT solenoid. I ran the crank sensor through the MAF sensor connector but didnt cut the MAF connector off since the pins are large enough that I could stick spade connectors into the MAF connector harness side. The MAF connector also has the IAT running through it. Not a single wire was cut on the harness and all soldering was done in my house. Since I run a DIYPNP, I just jumpered the proper wires inside to the new locations and done. The only bonehead thing I did was hot glue the soldered cutback old connectors for fear of the wires arching. My dumbass self should of known the underhood temps would melt the glue.:loser: Since they are all taped up the glue hasnt run out yet but when up to proper temp the connectors are jelly soft. Maybe a high temp glue might work as that requires upwards of 300* to melt. |
Originally Posted by thebeerbaron
(Post 979581)
Thanks Sav,
One more pedantic clarification: you're cutting and splicing in the engine bay? Are you soldering or crimping? Do you make your edits at the connector end, or back close to the firewall? I don't want to fuck this up. I know the details are minor, but I'd feel better knowing I did it exactly right rather than just wrong enough. Thanks! When soldering, heatshrink the connection then wrap it in electrical tape. |
Originally Posted by thebeerbaron
(Post 979581)
Thanks Andrew,
One more pedantic clarification: you're cutting and splicing in the engine bay? Are you soldering or crimping? Do you make your edits at the connector end, or back close to the firewall? |
Check my Supercommuter thread if you have a 1994 or newer, my track car build thread if you have a 1.6 car since I recently put a VVT engine in both.
|
I've had more crimp connections fail than solder. I buy old engine harnesses to keep the colors consistent with the 2001+ generation cars, strip, flux, and heat-shrink every connection.
|
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 980017)
I've had more crimp connections fail than solder. I buy old engine harnesses to keep the colors consistent with the 2001+ generation cars, strip, flux, and heat-shrink every connection.
|
Originally Posted by thebeerbaron
(Post 979503)
So, where (and what method) are you modifying your harness?
I really, really, REALLY don't want my engine bay to look like this: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1359785841 For my 1991 I drilled a .5" hole in the trans-tunnel on the passenger side and passed all accessory electronics (gauges) and grounds through there including the two additional injector wires. I ran that bundle up to the old igniter area. From there I used a 2001 fuel-injector harness connector for all fuel injectors (power and 4 trigger wires) leaving 3 spare wires. This was perfect to also run the two CLT wires and a third wire for my custom water temp gauge. The VVT solenoid is run through purge (yel/red) wire and I use power from that same connection (pin x on OEM connector 2). I then used the old 4-wire injector harness connector for the CMP and CKP wires. On my 1995 I basically did the same thing, but didn't have to jack with the fuel injector wiring because it came with sequential fuel from the factory. I used Weather-pack connectors for all other stuff. This way i can pull the engine by disconnecting 5 connectors, unbolt the starter wire, unbolt the alternator wire, disconnect the fuel lines, and pull the engine. All the ground wires, fuel injector wiring, and CKP/CMP wiring stays on the engine when you pull it. It's also crazy clean and awesome. My biggest tip for you is to make a clear, easy to read swap-diagram. Buy good solder and use flux. Don't trust Mazda service manuals or Madracki, use my guides because there were errors elsewhere. Finally, don't get drunk while you do this, lol. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 980020)
You suck at crimping. Solder introduces a stiff joint in an application where vibration is the norm, which is why even high-end motorsport harnesses are all crimped.
|
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 980023)
Crimping doesn't? The last time I checked, butt connectors were not flexy.
|
Hi, I am planning to put the VVT head on my 94' NA too.
I am worrying if the valve will hit my high CR piston (bought from fm). Any Idea of how much angle will the VVT tune the cam at most? |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 980020)
You suck at crimping. Solder introduces a stiff joint in an application where vibration is the norm, which is why even high-end motorsport harnesses are all crimped.
I solder my crimps. |
Originally Posted by oprso
(Post 981105)
Hi, I am planning to put the VVT head on my 94' NA too.
I am worrying if the valve will hit my high CR piston (bought from fm). Any Idea of how much angle will the VVT tune the cam at most? |
I see everyone here likes my swap solution....lol
|
For my 96 (but 1.6 (Euro car)- we got that over here) I just bought a complete VVT engine with the complete engine harness, instrument cluster, ecu, immobilizer unit etc...
Would that make a difference in how to wire the swap. I would preferr to use the new harness for the VVT enigne... (I don't have my wiring schematics at hand..) Are the Airbag and anti-lock brakes circuits separate from the engine circuit? |
IRRC airbag is independent, abs is almost independent on the 01+ there are like 1 or two wires that go to the ecu for something.
Either way to wire it is going to take some wiring. If you use the 96 harness you'll have to run some extra wires from the stand alone to the engine and rewire the cas to do crank and cam. Or if you do the 01 engine harness you'll have to do some wiring under the dash to make dash things work along with having to switch to a pnp standalone setup for an 01 ecu plug. |
Originally Posted by Zaphod
(Post 997249)
For my 96 (but 1.6 (Euro car)- we got that over here) I just bought a complete VVT engine with the complete engine harness, instrument cluster, ecu, immobilizer unit etc...
Would that make a difference in how to wire the swap. I would preferr to use the new harness for the VVT enigne... (I don't have my wiring schematics at hand..) Are the Airbag and anti-lock brakes circuits separate from the engine circuit?
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 864873)
I get the idea that your plan is to somehow splice the cut '01 harness into your factory harness at one point, using the VVT fusebox and 6-speed wiring. This is a terrible, terrible idea, and it will create a TON of unnecessary work. Don't do it that way, no matter how much you think it's a good idea, and no matter how much others have told you to do it that way.
|
O.k., O.k., O.k. - calm down... :makeout: I just thought there might be a difference, if the whole ECU will be swapped over...
|
Originally Posted by Zaphod
(Post 997433)
O.k., O.k., O.k. - calm down... :makeout: I just thought there might be a difference, if the whole ECU will be swapped over...
|
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 981111)
I solder my crimps.
Unless it's a mission critical connection though that's really too much work. I use the heatshrink butt splices and have experimented with filling them with silicone grease for extra weatherproofing. If I'm splicing more than two wires together I'll grab a larger gauge splice and crimp them all on one end, then bend the crimp against the harness and tape it up for stress relief. Also, get a ratcheting crimper with interchangeable dies. I've got a set for ECU terminals, RJ-45, and even a set for coax somewheres. Here is a link to more than you ever wanted to know about wiring and soldering. Inspectors |
Originally Posted by Zaphod
(Post 997433)
O.k., O.k., O.k. - calm down... :makeout: I just thought there might be a difference, if the whole ECU will be swapped over...
|
I already have a standalone for the car - but atm it's still in my 99 because Rev hasn't finished the new Enhanced MS3...
I'll have to look how I do it, because I need bloody TUEV approval for the car over here, and beleieve me - they don't like to see things like hacked harnesses. I will look into the swap a bit more, when I am back home from holidays and have all my wiring schematics at hand. I even thought about getting a whole car harness from ebay of a VVT car (there is one quite "cheap" now on ebay Germany) and swap it out completely... All of that only because of the TÜV... :vash: Greets Sven |
Besides one little ball of random wires behind the intake manifold (and the iat) you wouldn't know that my harness was swapped, heck it looks better done than stock I just used the 94 harness that was in the car and added another 8 wires from the cab including boost control and putting the map sensor in the engine bay. Check the connector witch hunt thread and source all the connectors for the swap.
|
Leafy, my understanding is that we were/are still looking for the proper pins in that thread? Please correct me if I am wrong, I am planning on getting a vvt engine hopefully within the next week or so if everything goes to plan. If we can easily get those correct connectors needed to do the swap, then I wont worry about getting an engine wire harness with the 01.
|
Originally Posted by Gryff
(Post 997560)
Leafy, my understanding is that we were/are still looking for the proper pins in that thread? Please correct me if I am wrong, I am planning on getting a vvt engine hopefully within the next week or so if everything goes to plan. If we can easily get those correct connectors needed to do the swap, then I wont worry about getting an engine wire harness with the 01.
|
ok cool, Looks like I need to reread that thread in more depth then.
|
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 997471)
Besides one little ball of random wires behind the intake manifold (and the iat) you wouldn't know that my harness was swapped, heck it looks better done than stock I just used the 94 harness that was in the car and added another 8 wires from the cab including boost control and putting the map sensor in the engine bay. Check the connector witch hunt thread and source all the connectors for the swap.
Sometimes I think I must be dreaming of them... |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 997443)
It's not worth swapping the whole ECU. If you're going through the trouble of swapping a VVT motor, control it with a standalone so you get the most out of it.
Everything else would be a wiring job out of hell... Just one more question - how do you do the ignition wiring on the 1.6 ignitor to the VVT cops...? Is there a how to anywhere? |
gut ignitor, pass wires straight through to coils, swap the connectors for the 99 coil plugs ?
|
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 998378)
gut ignitor, pass wires straight through to coils, swap the connectors for the 99 coil plugs ?
|
same difference.
|
O.K. ;-)
|
It was very hard to find the pinout pin out wiring of the 01 VVT 01+ ingestion spark coils (I added all those words so hopefully this post will come up on google when some other poor sucker is trying to figure it out) From top to bottom it is trigger, ground, power. However, if you dont get spark after pinning the connectors, de-pin the connector and crush the pins down a bit then put it back together. I noticed that the pins on the coil pack side are undersized and sometimes wont make contact with the pins in the harness side connector if you use pins form either bmotorsports or eastern beaver that are recommended for the connector. It is possible that a slightly different pin might need to be spec'ed to work with these coils in this connector.
|
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 998601)
It was very hard to find the pinout pin out wiring of the 01 VVT 01+ ingestion spark coils (I added all those words so hopefully this post will come up on google when some other poor sucker is trying to figure it out) From top to bottom it is trigger, ground, power. However, if you dont get spark after pinning the connectors, de-pin the connector and crush the pins down a bit then put it back together. I noticed that the pins on the coil pack side are undersized and sometimes wont make contact with the pins in the harness side connector if you use pins form either bmotorsports or eastern beaver that are recommended for the connector. It is possible that a slightly different pin might need to be spec'ed to work with these coils in this connector.
|
That weird, mazdamaki doesnt even have the 01+ wiring that I cant find. I know that if you do an 94-95 with VVT coils you need brown on the front coil (2/3) top and brown/yellow (1/4) on the rear coil top, black in the middle for both, and light blue on the bottom for both.
|
2 Attachment(s)
So use the Mazda FSM instead:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1365434138 You guys are silly. |
Yeah seriously, it's not too hard.
Here's how I problem solved it going from 1994 wiring: look at the 2001 coil wiring, note which leads are tied to ground and note which colors change. Bam, you've just found the GND, +12V and trigger wires. |
That's the same thing, idiots.
|
are you saying the one I posted is not correct?
|
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 998631)
are you saying the one I posted is not correct?
|
oh, those are never in the diagrams. I'd have to look at my notes...
looked at notes: 3I, coil 2 = 2&3 3F, coil 1 = 1&4 |
And the other problem is not knowing which way the connector is orientated in the fsm.
|
Who cares, match wires to wires.
|
1 Attachment(s)
connector pictures with a double outline are the male, and a single outline are female. and are almost always from the harness side (notice the main relay in the above mentions it's the terminal side).
So it should be looked at, like you unplug the connector, then look into it like this: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1365438567 i could be wrong. I always just double check. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 998643)
IIRC, they are almost always the plug side, so it would be like removing the connect from the coilpack, then looking down into the male connector itself, not the coil.
|
Cliff notes please!
C |
Very nice information here - thanks guys.
|
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 998633)
If coil #1 goes to cylinder 1 and 4, then "yes," motherfucker.
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 998634)
looked at notes:
3I, coil 2 = 2&3 3F, coil 1 = 1&4 |
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:23 PM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands