I hava a question about pistons, detnation and coatings. - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-20-2012, 06:53 AM   #1
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 0
Default I hava a question about pistons, detnation and coatings.

I have seen several race engines that use boost and N20.They have the valves, combustion chambers, and pistons coated to prevent heat soak. I was wondering if any one here has tried that since I saw the sticky on detonation and built engines. I am planing to get my pistons coated since I had it done on my last N20 engine and they seemed to hold up better then non coated pistons. Now I am not saying that it is a substitute for proper tuning. I would think it would help these engines hold together a little better under boosted conditions.
Jebrccars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:17 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arl. Texas
Posts: 937
Total Cats: 23
Default

Whats your goal for the engine? Track abuse? Daily drive? Unless your floggin it over 300+ hp on a track there's no worry about the motor holding together. If your worries about the motors life, build the bottom end with nice rods and maybe some new pistons.

Do more research, don't waste money on coatings unless you just wanna spend money. Yes they work, no they are not needed.

What's N2O?
Miater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:22 AM   #3
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,202
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

Nitrous.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:34 AM   #4
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miater View Post
Whats your goal for the engine? Track abuse? Daily drive? Unless your floggin it over 300+ hp on a track there's no worry about the motor holding together. If your worries about the motors life, build the bottom end with nice rods and maybe some new pistons.

Do more research, don't waste money on coatings unless you just wanna spend money. Yes they work, no they are not needed.

What's N2O?
I was gonna shoot for 300+ and while I may track the car on weekends from time to time mostly just a nice toy to play with and back up vehicle. I already looked into all the engine building stuff and I made this post since I was reading about how some of the built engines had piston melting issues.
Jebrccars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:36 AM   #5
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,202
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

built engines should not have any piston melting issues unless the tune is beyond terrible.

the coating may or may not help, but I don't think anyone here will be able to tell you "yes, significantly" or "no, completely irrelevant" like you're wanting to know. Its one of those things that I have never seen tested to the extreme to show some cold hard data.

But I'm open to being proven wrong.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:41 AM   #6
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
built engines should not have any piston melting issues unless the tune is beyond terrible.

the coating may or may not help, but I don't think anyone here will be able to tell you "yes, significantly" or "no, completely irrelevant" like you're wanting to know. Its one of those things that I have never seen tested to the extreme to show some cold hard data.

But I'm open to being proven wrong.
I guess I was just more curious then anything if anyone had used them. Having only used them on a e-85 BBC with a 300+ N20 situation I know they work. I was reading as much as I could on here so I could go into my build well informed.
Jebrccars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #7
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,202
Total Cats: 2,584
Default

People have coated pistons on here many times.

I haven't seen anyone coat everything else.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 10:57 AM   #8
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I don't think they're more effective than the natural carbon coating that lays-down on piston.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:26 AM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,010
Total Cats: 583
Default

The Miata engine also incorporates oil squirters to cool the pistons. It's already built for the abuse.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:48 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arl. Texas
Posts: 937
Total Cats: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miater View Post

What's N2O?

I ment that as in there are very few people using nitrous in Miatas. As in "what's an 18" wheel?"
Miater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:55 AM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
miata2fast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dover, FL
Posts: 2,904
Total Cats: 109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miater View Post

What's N2O?
Its fun fun fun!
miata2fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 12:04 PM   #12
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 0
Default

I know about the oil squirt feature I was more concerned with the tops of the pistons since I know boost can and will melt a piston if too much is used or if the timing is too far advanced.
Jebrccars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:37 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canton, Ga
Posts: 1,707
Total Cats: 19
Default

I coated mine.. I've got no idea if it helped, hurt, or if its still even there, or not..
Stealth97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:42 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
triple88a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,133
Total Cats: 599
Default

I'd coat the exhaust valves and call it done.
triple88a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:44 PM   #15
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

I think the reason why you don't see a lot of talk about piston coatings and other piston/block treatments is not because they are ineffective (there's a reason why high hp and full out race and enduro applications commonly use coatings and cryo/rem treatments), but do to the fact that a mildly built BP is already stronger than its supporting hardware. Meaning that the weak link is the trans or diff, or the cylinder head... NOT the rotating assembly.

The Miata platform isn't exactly a stellar drag performer, so you don't see a lot of nitrous use normally -- and when you do, it's small shots.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 01:45 PM   #16
Newb
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28
Total Cats: 0
Default

thanks guys.
Jebrccars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:30 PM   #17
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 0
Default

And the stock pogo sticks rods BP engine have. You may not throw one out, but usually before the pistons melt, the rods will bend even so slightly.
psiturbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 04:04 PM   #18
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I think the reason why you don't see a lot of talk about piston coatings and other piston/block treatments is not because they are ineffective (there's a reason why high hp and full out race and enduro applications commonly use coatings and cryo/rem treatments), but do to the fact that a mildly built BP is already stronger than its supporting hardware. Meaning that the weak link is the trans or diff, or the cylinder head... NOT the rotating assembly.

The Miata platform isn't exactly a stellar drag performer, so you don't see a lot of nitrous use normally -- and when you do, it's small shots.
If a piston crown coating could give me more spark angle, I'd be interested.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 08:34 PM   #19
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
If a piston crown coating could give me more spark angle, I'd be interested.
There are differing opinions regarding the merits of ceramic or other thermal coating on the crowns, and I can not claim I am an expert in the subject. I think the less disputed benefits are found in coating the skirts and in cry or cry/rem treatment of the cylinders.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 08:55 PM   #20
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cromwell CT
Posts: 1,109
Total Cats: 48
Default

if your gonna run nitrous then i would coat, its not if, its when if it gonna melt with nitrous. i have worked on plenty of high dollar V8s running mass nitrous that have been tuned great and come back melter down, domes,combustion chambers, valves. if your gonna run juice then get the ceramic coatings. for just boost i wouldnt bother. Brian crower advised us not to coat on a 1000hp 4G63 , they said coating cause the rings to over heat. im not sure how much i believe this but it was their stroker kit
ctdrftna is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
WTB Stock NB Pistons pdexta WTB 0 09-28-2015 12:18 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 PM.