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Old 06-07-2016, 01:20 AM   #21
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codrus was the one who had issues. He is also running a returnless.

It probably isn't a big deal with the fpr close to the rail, but you need a fuel pressure sensor to be sure.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjak View Post
What are everyone's thoughts on running fuel rails without dampers?

I haven't had one for 2 years an haven't seen any issues, though my engine doesn't idle well at the bet of times. My understanding is that most aftermarket FPR's have some damping anyway although it's not located at the fuel rail. Anyone have some more info on it?
Rubber lines, or a regulator close to the rail, will dampen the pulses. If you put a regulator in the gas tank, and run stiff lines all the way to the rail, you'll need a damper at or close to the rail. If you keep a regulator close to the rail, it will dampen pulses on its own well enough. I'm doing the latter, and running all the boost and have a fuel pressure sensor, no issues.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
codrus was the one who had issues. He is also running a returnless.

It probably isn't a big deal with the fpr close to the rail, but you need a fuel pressure sensor to be sure.
You need a fuel pressure sensor and you need to look at it with something high-enough resolution to see the pulses. A gauge is worthless, something that logs at the speed of the MS3 (~ 16 hz, IIRC) will show what looks like random noise around the shape that the fuel pressure curve is supposed to be, and with an oscilloscope you can see the injectors open.

FWIW, this is what the fuel pressure looked like with a Walbro pump, stainless lines, non-return system, id1000s, AEM FPR, manifold referenced, and using an FM fuel rail. The the small factory on-rail damper is installed and the big on-fender damper is deleted. It's the white line in the third graph:



Note that there was no obvious drivability problem in the car, the only reason I know there were 10-15 psi fuel pressure swings is because of the sensor I had installed. Does a return-based system have these same swings? I don't know, I haven't measured one, and AFAIK neither has anybody else on mt.net.

I installed a Radium damper and it completely eliminated the pressure variance.

--Ian
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:32 AM   #24
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Does a return-based system have these same swings? I don't know, I haven't measured one, and AFAIK neither has anybody else on mt.net.

--Ian
I did.

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Old 06-07-2016, 02:52 AM   #25
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I hate the returnless system.
And I love a well set up return system.

The results are pretty clear.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:17 AM   #26
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I see fluctuations in the logs of my fuel pressure, however I think it's actually electrical interference rather than actual readings. When I had the wiring temporarily running to the ECU for testing the fuel pressure sat dead flat, but when I wired it up properly the following day the noise appeared in the signal. It's something I've been meaning to fix as it's most likely my CAS wiring that's not shielded properly... I hate electrics!
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