Infrared pyrometer for checking AFRs!!!!! FUUU YAHHH - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-09-2010, 12:17 AM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default Infrared pyrometer for checking AFRs!!!!! FUUU YAHHH

Wooo! I thought of a great way to check if you are hitting the same air/fuel ration in all cylinders!

Instead of having individual cylinder widebands or EGT sensors-

Do a big hard throbbing swollen pulsating quivering dyno pull (or hill or brake'd pull) and then use a pyrometer to check the temperatures of your exhaust manifold runners. If you have one cylinder that is hotter then it is either getting more air or less fuel. If you have matched injectors, then hot=more air.

I will be doing this **** when I dyno tune so I can make sure my modified intake manifold is not ******* up my air-cylinder distributions. I think this test is so damn easy it's worth it on any setup including stockolio.

What do you all think? I think I deserve the super prize. **** flow bench testing!
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:19 AM   #2
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,175
Total Cats: 2,578
Default

Put the vodka down
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 10:26 AM   #3
Senior Member
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 703
Total Cats: 0
Default

EGT can and often does increase on both sides of stoich. You may very well have identical temperatures with AFRs varying by as much as two points.
pschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 10:33 AM   #4
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Well, the pyrometer would at least indicate a variance.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 10:36 AM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

This was done in the age before widebands and EFI. Nothing new.


What are you going to invent next? sliced bread?
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 11:35 AM   #6
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

some of us are not that old

bah! I have read so many threads with "but i would have to run widebands on each cylinder to know" or "i need individual cylinder EGT sensors". This fine skill has been long forgotten.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 11:40 AM   #7
I haz no trubo
iTrader: (2)
 
Oscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bolton, UK
Posts: 3,021
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pschmidt View Post
EGT can and often does increase on both sides of stoich. You may very well have identical temperatures with AFRs varying by as much as two points.
This.
Oscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 11:48 AM   #8
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Were you reading the FFS thread on miata.net and trying to make a joke?
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 11:58 AM   #9
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,505
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Were you reading the FFS thread on miata.net and trying to make a joke?
Thats what i was like... Tom, is that you?
chicksdigmiatas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:22 PM   #10
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

****, my point is that the pyrometer will indicate a slurplus or deficit of air. Suck a dick, that is all.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:28 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,923
Total Cats: 0
Default

Are you going to be doing your own tuning on this car?
JayL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:38 PM   #12
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL View Post
Are you going to be doing your own tuning on this car?
No, Phil @ Element.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:50 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,923
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
No, Phil @ Element.
You might want to run some of these ideas past him. I'm pretty sure he'll be fine tuning the car without any help.
JayL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:57 PM   #14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL View Post
You might want to run some of these ideas past him. I'm pretty sure he'll be fine tuning the car without any help.
I do have a wideband and EGT for tuning. The idea is really just to check if an individual cylinder has more or less air than the others.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 01:00 PM   #15
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
I do have a wideband and EGT for tuning. The idea is really just to check if an individual cylinder has more or less air than the others.
But do you have the ability to adjust the output of each injector to even them out?

I like the idea
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 01:06 PM   #16
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
But do you have the ability to adjust the output of each injector to even them out?

I like the idea
Yup, got individual injector trims.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 01:55 PM   #17
AFM Crusader
iTrader: (18)
 
olderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 4,438
Total Cats: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
Yup, got individual injector trims.
Cool. Like to see the before and after statistics
olderguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 02:31 PM   #18
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

There are going to be minor differences in temperature cylinder to cylinder, but also a lot of error is introduced measuring in this manner. We have a non contact thermometer at the dyno for this purpose, however if tuning a real monster of a car, we'll stop a couple of times to pull and check the plugs.

The non contact thermometer is more trustworthy for verifying sensor calibrations, looking for / identifying a dead cylinder... and for tuning our RC nitro cars.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 02:33 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 1,927
Total Cats: 5
Default

So you're going to measure the runner temp at every RPM for each cylinder to determine exactly where you're running lean?

How about if you're running way lean in cylinder 3 at 3-5k RPM at 25 psi and when you taper down to 20 psi from 5-7.5k you're running pig rich? What will your rectal thermometer show?
fmowry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 02:35 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Springfield IL
Posts: 2,750
Total Cats: 24
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
This was done in the age before widebands and EFI. Nothing new.


What are you going to invent next? sliced bread?

That wasn't done very long ago!

Hell, 10 years ago, WB02's were something only shops had........ Or emissions test stations.... I remember tuning the DSM using a pyrometer and an AFC before the GM MAF-T setup came out.
chpmnsws6 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(Noob). Does MS3 use CEL? TheNomad MEGAsquirt 6 10-01-2015 11:47 AM
Any pnp megasquirt for 2001 Big_gumby WTB 0 09-30-2015 04:34 PM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM
Recommended Tire Temp for best friction thumpetto007 Race Prep 4 09-27-2015 06:16 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:34 AM.