Maruha 10mm lift cams + Supertech SUB; lifter edge wear? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-01-2015, 09:31 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default Maruha 10mm lift cams + Supertech SUB; lifter edge wear?

Hey guys, I have the supertech SUB setup from 949, my valves area ll shimmed in and ready to go.

One issue: The machinist believes the camshaft ramps are hitting the exhaust lifters on the edge and will cause engine failure and/or premature wear. He's not 100% sure and I wanted to check with you guys to see if anyone else with aftermarket cams have experienced.

Intake cam and lifter during opening event looks like this;

Intake camshaft lobe + lifter - opening event


Exhaust camshaft lobe + Lifter - opening event

Thoughts?
Attached Thumbnails
Maruha 10mm lift cams + Supertech SUB; lifter edge wear?-80-img_20150901_183401_20intake_832ef54420c1742381944551499a20e6cc9de0a0.jpg   Maruha 10mm lift cams + Supertech SUB; lifter edge wear?-80-img_20150901_180730_20exhaust_26c6ad7026521a241273cdbca92281fbb518f0b4.jpg  
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 09:54 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 248
Default

Hard to tell from pics. Easy way to tell would be pull cam, clean the bucket top, apply machinist layout fluid (or use a sharpie) and then reinstall the cam and spin it several times. The lob will wear away the ink and you'll see where the cam is making contact. If it really is applying a load on the edge, I'd agree that's not going to last very long.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 10:03 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canton, Ga
Posts: 1,707
Total Cats: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Hard to tell from pics. Easy way to tell would be pull cam, clean the bucket top, apply machinist layout fluid (or use a sharpie) and then reinstall the cam and spin it several times. The lob will wear away the ink and you'll see where the cam is making contact. If it really is applying a load on the edge, I'd agree that's not going to last very long.
Interested to see the results of that one.
Stealth97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 10:45 PM   #4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default

I'll talk to the machinist and try that tomorrow before I go to work.. I'm surprised that it's giving this much issue considering the fact that many folks just bolt in, set lash and go..
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 10:56 PM   #5
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 1,403
Total Cats: 261
Default

I see what you mean in the pics. Looks like the lobe rides on the edge of the lifter initially instead of on the face of the lifter for the full rotation.
99mx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 11:19 PM   #6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default

^ Precisely! My concern is the pressure it puts against the inner-edge of the lifter boss/lifter edge, my machinist thinks it could cause the lifter to seize and hold the valve open. Or it could be completely fine \_(ツ)_/

I've tried getting info from Maruha directly but they can take a LONG time to get back to me (2 weeks with my last email)...
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 11:51 PM   #7
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 362
Total Cats: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Idiot View Post
I've tried getting info from Maruha directly but they can take a LONG time to get back to me (2 weeks with my last email)...
Ocean at Chikara might be able to help you out. There is still a slight language barrier, but he is usually pretty quick to respond.
They distribute Maruha stuff for North America.

I'm curious, are these the 264* 264* "race" cams, or the 252* 256* F-cam?
OneTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 12:22 AM   #8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default

They're the 264/264 race cams, here's the part numbers:

mar06051200 (Intake)
mar06051201 (Exhaust)
Maruha Racing Camshaft Mazda MX-5 Miata

Now, I'm wondering if the buckets Maruha is using is different than the ones I picked up from 949racing a few years back, he had one variety that cost significantly more than the (newer and cheaper) 200-ish variety he has now. The outside diameter can't be any higher but maybe the roof is tapered or something? We were wondering if the buckets and cams are designed to rotate or not, I'll try reaching out to Chikara, thanks a lot Brian.

-Tim
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 09:40 PM   #9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default

I got a response back form Chikara, they commented that the exhaust side looks normal the way it's laid out so I am going to go forward with the reinstall as-is. We'll keep the VC loose and let the engine break in and pull the VC after break in to check for any wear while also listening for any weird mechanical sounds. Going to get some ZDDP rich break-in oil and some additive to run for the first thousand or so. My biggest concern is getting timing correct w/ the CAS and Crank sensor to get it to start without continual cranking...

"You don't need to worry the cam lobe touching the lifter edge of the exhaust side. As long as you valve spring seat pressure is not over 80lb. It is normal on exhaust side."

Lucky day! My seat pressure is 63 pounds with the light double springs!
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 12:48 AM   #10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default

Picked up some Rotella T6 as there wasn't any ZDDP oil to break the engine in. I plan to mix a full bottle of the Lucus break-in oil additive and a jug of T6 until breakin finishes then change the oil and run a regular bottle of T6.

Just for kicks, anyone have their valve cover off and can turn over the crank to take a picture of the exhaust cam opening event? I'd like to see how a stock cam appears compared to my image.
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 04:53 AM   #11
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Does your motor builder know you plan to break in your brand new engine on synthetic oil? If a customer did that to one of my engines, they would be 100% on the hook for the rebuild bill when the rings failed to properly seat.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 03:26 PM   #12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default

Woo response from Maruha is everything looks correct, in their reply it read;

"On your question, it is very good point !!
Mazda B6/BP lifter is 30mm OD size, it is smaller than others.
therefore very difficult to develop high-performance cams.
However our camshafts are leading Mx5 market with high-quality

It looks that Cam side interference with Lifter edge.
but it is not like that in fact.
Cam lobe must be touching with Lifter top always (not edge).
and lifter turns when cam-top push, so there is no-wear out."

Gonna go ahead with the install. Mega relief! Guess I'll spend my lunch buying some modeling clay and a micrometer.
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 04:31 PM   #13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,295
Total Cats: 22
Default

Sav: Good point, the engine was already broken in on dino oil. I only pulled the head to do cams. After some thinking I opted to pickup some
Joe Gibbs Joe Gibbs
oil to breakin the cams, research shows it should be one of the best options (I guess the high calcium in most other breakin oils washes some of the phosphorus off the parts) figured the grease and lucus would be enough but I didn't even stop to think about the synthetic affecting the cams. I'll break the cams in, change over to rotella and toss in the lucus oil and go through a tank of gas out of boost (if I can lol) and change oil/filter again.
Der_Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
WTB HPDE miata - Texas Voltwings Cars for sale/trade 0 09-27-2015 07:40 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:20 PM.