Max boost on stock internals 1.6
 

If I can keep fuel and timing controlled what is the max psi I can run.

I am at 11psi and am wondering if I am getting close to the edge.

SEARCH! Seriously.

In short, boost is not the limiting factor, power is. 5psi on a giant turbo might blow your engine up, 15psi on a tiny one might be just fine.

Your little '90 can handle around 225lb/ft, another 25lb/ft is the accepted limit of the transmission, so unless you're ready to do major rod and tranny upgrades, stay around 200. I wanna say somewhere around 11-12 for your setup, dyno is the only way to tell though.

Thanks. I did search "max psi 1.6" boost 1.6, max boost. I tried.
I read back to the start of 2010 post's.

I got to be honest It feels real strong a 11psi. I but my injector seem to have a little more so i was thinking 12 psi would be about 180. I upgraded to the 305cc supra injectors.

Don't do searches for long word strings... just single words. Use the ADVANCED MENU and limit your searches to appropriate forums. For example, searching the word max in the suspension forum won't help you.

Do a TITLE SEARCH for the word internals and see what you find.

I imagine the max power for 1.6 and 1.8 stock internals would be in a sticky too. I wanna say it's around 250 for the 1.8's but I could be way off.

If everything is controlled properly to where you have no detonation you should be able to push it to about 250 without much issue. Big "IF" though. Many think they have both under control only to find out otherwise. The hard way.

Reading comprehension fail. Read Curly's post again.

I am trying to do the best I can without the cash it takes to get a megasquirt and 200 -400 dollars worth of dyno time. I figured 12psi was good as long as I can take out timing and add fuel which seem good. running 11.4-12.4 above 5.5k. No pinging pulling 9 degrees with the bipes and running 93 of course.
Once I get on the dyno I would not be suprised if it takes 14-15psi on my small 2554 garret to get 200 rwhp but that is a uneducated guess. Thats why I post here for an educated guess

Wait you're on bandaids?????!!!

:facepalm:
This thread is a lost cause.

You need real engine management if you want to go above 5psi safely.

ftfy.

Unfortunately, the days of the band aids are numbered, you have much less support these days than even just a year ago. Many people are like the above two knuckleheads, who believe it's standalone ecu or bust. With the price and support of MS, they're partially right, however if your current setup is band aids, there's no point in changing that immediately as most would have you do, IF YOU'RE RUNNING A SAFE TUNE.

The point savington brought up about the wideband however, is not an option. Get one immediately. Judging if your car is running rich or lean by how it's bogging should be left for R/C cars and 5 liter carburetored v8s running 150hp, not high strung 1.6 liter engines trying to reach 200hp with a turbo.

As soon as I hooked up my wideband on my old band aid setup I didn't see anything above 3000rpm until I drove home from the shop and fixed my extreme lean issue. Which, I should mention, was on a tune I thought I was perfectly safe on. 1.8 injectors, bipes bulling a bunch of timing, and the overly rich vortech. Turns out a fuel line was busted in the tank, giving me 16.0 afr or leaner in boost. That is one thing you CANNOT safely tune without.

I am now extremely confused. It's been said again and again on this forum that if you have anything other then the most basic of turbo setups (Shanghai-S for example) then you need a standalone, and if you choose not to get one and exceed a relatively modest amount of boost/power added, they bad things will happen. So, what's the truth? I take it that it's a good idea to have a standalone, but at what point does one realistically need one? I suppose it would depend on ones setup, but just ballpark.

Thanks Curly,
I do have a wideband. I will get it added to my sig.
I just changed the o'2 sensor on it to make sure whatI was seeing was right.
I need to update my sig with a couple other things too like the supra injectors. 305cc I think but will double check.
I seem to be able to keep it on the rich side of 12.8 under 5700 rpm then richens up tp 11.5 12.4 above. I can make it richer with the begi fuel press reg.
I will test some more and get more exact #'s. The bipes is set to pull 10 degrees plus extra for heat.

The point of my op was just to make sure 11-12 psi would not be pushing the internals.

Thanks

The truth is that it really depends. Back before MS was really around you only had bandaids and expensive ECU's such as Hydra, link, AEM. So people made due with what was available. There are people who have safely hit 200hp on bandaids. With a properly tuned bipes and FMU you can have a safe setup, it is far from optimal, but will run the car without being afraid of blowing up the motor.

The reason that people say go with an MS is because it costs roughly the same price of all the bandaids and is a much better solution. If you already have the bandaids then trying to sell them and then buy an MS might not be a feasible option.

If you are going to push your motor and are already making some decent power i would say that would be the point.

Since this is the 2nd thread where you call us knuckleheads I'm going to ask you a serious question:

Do you like to be the guy the tells someone the truth and gets them thinking about revising their game plan right off the bat? (basically an MT.net'er)
or
Be the guy that holds their hand, pats their balls, and enables them into doing dumb stuff only to later figure out they should have done it right the 1st time? (basically an M.net'er)


When I was a noob I 1st wanted to go with Band aids. Everyone told me its a crappy idea.
Then I wanted to try the voodoo box. Everyone shot that idea down as well and told me to stop dicking around and get engine management.

Looking back, and looking at a few local kids with band aids and how crappy their setups are and how mediocre the power is and how unpredictable the cars are I am very happy that I had some common sense knocked into me at the time.

I'm one of the more recent converts from band aids to megasquirt, so believe me, the differences and benefits are fresh in my mind. Starting from scratch, I would never suggest band aids over a standalone unit.

But lets be honest, our Miatas are a means of transport, and for a lot of us, a secondary means of transport, or "toy". Therefore, I don't feel it necessary to lie, fudge the truth, or withhold help in order to convince him to purchase a standalone ecu. He's already spent his money on these band aids, I'd like to see him have a safe and free tune rather than call him an idiot until he buys a megasquirt. If he starts to ask if he should spend $200 on a AFPR, that's when I'll really start pushing the megasquirt route.

I'm not going to "pat their balls", but I will help him keep his band aid setup safe, until he sees the light and can afford it.

Fair enough, I can respect that.
And we come off harsh but mean well. Anyone with half a brain quickly figures this out. That's what makes this community so close.

Or you can be like me and buy a Rotrex, make 300whp and 200wtq and rock a 5spd on the track. But I wish I had more torques.

I'm running a ser up very close to what "90 Turbo" is running and I'm pushing 11psi. I have been running this set up for a few years and have pulled off 4 TTOD's at local autocroses this year without engine failure. I would love to go to a standalone though it's totally foreign to me and reading the info on the forum reveals a totally new langauge I Can't fully decifer. I believe others are likely in the same position and therefore have not crossed over from the dark side!

It's a steep learning curve. Definitely research it ahead of time, but I knew practically nothing and understood even less. I week after hooking up the MS and I knew a huge amount, and was very comfortable tuning it. Hard to learn anything just by reading.

I'm still on bandaids and have been running 11psi on a 2854 with 305's for the whole summer.

Thanks for all the helpful post.
I will be buying a megasquirt before I put another penny into the band aids but since they are what came with the car and I cant afford the 600 dollar+ dyno time just yet I want to get my toy running as well as possible.

Can anyone id the black box in this pic for me. I believe it to be a o2 clamp but am not sure of its make or model.

i was running 19psi on my b6t motor(only 7.9:1 compression B6) using a 14b eclipse turbo without the benefit of band aids... i had a wide band, a few stock fpr's with different ratings, 3 or 4 sets of different injectors, and a screwdriver to adjust my vaf spring and air bypass... ran great...for about 3 months then it blew... when i swapped to a BP i decided to go MS. if i knew how easy MS was when i was still 1.6 i probably would still have it in there.

I was just thinking that if you can't afford a $450 MS then you probably shouldn't be turning up the boost to try to find the limits, but that's probably just the logic talking.

I agree, a turbo miata can be more money than one bargains for if they push limits.

I believe that's an early olderguy o2 clamp. He's a member here, search for him with "o2 clamp" in the title and you should find a few threads with details on how to tune that particular device.

BTW: $600 and dyno time? Shouldn't need dyno time with MS. It's helpful, but not necessary. And a few members here will build you one for rock bottom prices, so think of it more like $400. And you can get $200-300 for your band aids, so think of MS as a $200 upgrade. I did, made it a lot easier to justify in my head :)

my car has never seen a dyno tune. i am using an afr table made by brain and just let the ve analyze tune the fuel tables. my afrs hit all my targets and ive been running 10psi

400 dollars. Wow I did not know it could be that cheap. Would that be the ms1,2 or 3. I will think about that.

ms1, kit is $147, and you need about $100 of misc. parts. Finding someone to build it for you for $150 isn't too hard. Try Wayne_Curr, dunno if he has the time or if he's charging more currently.

I dont have enough time to change my oil let alone build stuff for people :(

Back to the mines slave! You can sleep when you die!

Try Jeff.

+1 on you don't really need to dyno with MS.

Here's my recommended order:
1. Install MS with a wideband and TPS. Get rid of the AFM at the same time.
2. Unless you have something else you know is good, start with the MSPNP time and fuel maps. They're safe.
3. Start it and idle it. You'll learn a heck of a lot just doing this.
4. As you drive, log data and use MegaLog to tune your fuel. You can really nail fuel doing this -- much better than spending dyno time on it. There is also an autotune feature if you pony up for TunerStudio.
5. By the time you've done all the above, you'll be pretty expert on the MS, and will have a well sorted, safe car. Now, if desired, is when you go to the dyno and work on optimizing spark for that last bit of power.

This will save you dyno money and will get you a really great tune and a heck of an education on engine management.

BTW, I still haven't been to the dyno. I'm nearly 10K miles in too. But, trying to get there this month. Want that extra little bit out of my spark map.

Thank you. I've been trying to figure that out for a while, and when I asked I couldn't tell which answerers where sarcastic, and who was trying to help. I suppose that bandaids do need dyno time? Or can a person tune them at home? (I've read the stickies time and time again)

With MS, you log your engine data and make intelligent adjustments that can be verified and reviewed.

With bandaids, you make mechanical adjustments and hope for the best. So long as you have a wideband and boost gauge, you can sort of keep an eye on things, but it is a far cry from the datalogging capability that MS gives you. Worst case, you blow something up.

Purchased a used brain built ms.
https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-parts-sale-trade-5/ms1-v3-0-90-93-parallel-60905/

Wish me luck.
I am told I dont need the tps because the stock ecu does fine with the stock one.

What are the advantages to getting rid of the afm

The AFM is your main intake restriction. DUMP IT!!

I recommend a TPS. It allows you to take advantage of TPS-based accel enrichment (usually more stable than MAP-based), helps with idle trigger points, helps with EBC, etc., etc. You don't need it right away -- this can be a growth item. You've got plenty to learn right now.

Yeah, I functioned fine without TPS, although I did upgrade. Couldn't tell a huge difference, but I'm probably not using it to the full extent. Easily switched with a simple setting, map based vs. TPS based.

Definitely ditch the AFM, if only for a cleaner look. What's the AIT cost brand new, $10? Worth it.

gm iat is 15 iirc. maybe less. definitely worth it ditching that stock POS afm: gets rid of a restriction, more engine bay space, unrestricted intake routing/placement, etc.

congrats on being smart and upgrading, there is hope for you yet;)

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