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Old 10-29-2011, 10:54 PM   #1
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Default Max boost on stock internals 1.6

If I can keep fuel and timing controlled what is the max psi I can run.

I am at 11psi and am wondering if I am getting close to the edge.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:17 PM   #2
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SEARCH! Seriously.

In short, boost is not the limiting factor, power is. 5psi on a giant turbo might blow your engine up, 15psi on a tiny one might be just fine.

Your little '90 can handle around 225lb/ft, another 25lb/ft is the accepted limit of the transmission, so unless you're ready to do major rod and tranny upgrades, stay around 200. I wanna say somewhere around 11-12 for your setup, dyno is the only way to tell though.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:46 PM   #3
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Thanks. I did search "max psi 1.6" boost 1.6, max boost. I tried.
I read back to the start of 2010 post's.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:49 PM   #4
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I got to be honest It feels real strong a 11psi. I but my injector seem to have a little more so i was thinking 12 psi would be about 180. I upgraded to the 305cc supra injectors.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:53 AM   #5
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Don't do searches for long word strings... just single words. Use the ADVANCED MENU and limit your searches to appropriate forums. For example, searching the word max in the suspension forum won't help you.

Do a TITLE SEARCH for the word internals and see what you find.
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:05 AM   #6
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I imagine the max power for 1.6 and 1.8 stock internals would be in a sticky too. I wanna say it's around 250 for the 1.8's but I could be way off.
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:24 AM   #7
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If everything is controlled properly to where you have no detonation you should be able to push it to about 250 without much issue. Big "IF" though. Many think they have both under control only to find out otherwise. The hard way.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Turbo View Post
I got to be honest It feels real strong a 11psi. I but my injector seem to have a little more so i was thinking 12 psi would be about 180. I upgraded to the 305cc supra injectors.
Reading comprehension fail. Read Curly's post again.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:17 PM   #9
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I am trying to do the best I can without the cash it takes to get a megasquirt and 200 -400 dollars worth of dyno time. I figured 12psi was good as long as I can take out timing and add fuel which seem good. running 11.4-12.4 above 5.5k. No pinging pulling 9 degrees with the bipes and running 93 of course.
Once I get on the dyno I would not be suprised if it takes 14-15psi on my small 2554 garret to get 200 rwhp but that is a uneducated guess. Thats why I post here for an educated guess
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:35 PM   #10
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Wait you're on bandaids?????!!!


This thread is a lost cause.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:50 PM   #11
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You need real engine management if you want to go above 5psi safely.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
You need real engine management if you want to easily go above 5psi safely.
ftfy.

Unfortunately, the days of the band aids are numbered, you have much less support these days than even just a year ago. Many people are like the above two knuckleheads, who believe it's standalone ecu or bust. With the price and support of MS, they're partially right, however if your current setup is band aids, there's no point in changing that immediately as most would have you do, IF YOU'RE RUNNING A SAFE TUNE.

The point savington brought up about the wideband however, is not an option. Get one immediately. Judging if your car is running rich or lean by how it's bogging should be left for R/C cars and 5 liter carburetored v8s running 150hp, not high strung 1.6 liter engines trying to reach 200hp with a turbo.

As soon as I hooked up my wideband on my old band aid setup I didn't see anything above 3000rpm until I drove home from the shop and fixed my extreme lean issue. Which, I should mention, was on a tune I thought I was perfectly safe on. 1.8 injectors, bipes bulling a bunch of timing, and the overly rich vortech. Turns out a fuel line was busted in the tank, giving me 16.0 afr or leaner in boost. That is one thing you CANNOT safely tune without.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:25 PM   #13
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I am now extremely confused. It's been said again and again on this forum that if you have anything other then the most basic of turbo setups (Shanghai-S for example) then you need a standalone, and if you choose not to get one and exceed a relatively modest amount of boost/power added, they bad things will happen. So, what's the truth? I take it that it's a good idea to have a standalone, but at what point does one realistically need one? I suppose it would depend on ones setup, but just ballpark.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:35 PM   #14
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Thanks Curly,
I do have a wideband. I will get it added to my sig.
I just changed the o'2 sensor on it to make sure whatI was seeing was right.
I need to update my sig with a couple other things too like the supra injectors. 305cc I think but will double check.
I seem to be able to keep it on the rich side of 12.8 under 5700 rpm then richens up tp 11.5 12.4 above. I can make it richer with the begi fuel press reg.
I will test some more and get more exact #'s. The bipes is set to pull 10 degrees plus extra for heat.

The point of my op was just to make sure 11-12 psi would not be pushing the internals.

Thanks
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
I am now extremely confused. It's been said again and again on this forum that if you have anything other then the most basic of turbo setups (Shanghai-S for example) then you need a standalone, and if you choose not to get one and exceed a relatively modest amount of boost/power added, they bad things will happen. So, what's the truth? I take it that it's a good idea to have a standalone, but at what point does one realistically need one? I suppose it would depend on ones setup, but just ballpark.
The truth is that it really depends. Back before MS was really around you only had bandaids and expensive ECU's such as Hydra, link, AEM. So people made due with what was available. There are people who have safely hit 200hp on bandaids. With a properly tuned bipes and FMU you can have a safe setup, it is far from optimal, but will run the car without being afraid of blowing up the motor.

The reason that people say go with an MS is because it costs roughly the same price of all the bandaids and is a much better solution. If you already have the bandaids then trying to sell them and then buy an MS might not be a feasible option.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:53 PM   #16
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If you are going to push your motor and are already making some decent power i would say that would be the point.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
ftfy.

Unfortunately, the days of the band aids are numbered, you have much less support these days than even just a year ago. Many people are like the above two knuckleheads, who believe it's standalone ecu or bust.
Since this is the 2nd thread where you call us knuckleheads I'm going to ask you a serious question:

Do you like to be the guy the tells someone the truth and gets them thinking about revising their game plan right off the bat? (basically an MT.net'er)
or
Be the guy that holds their hand, pats their *****, and enables them into doing dumb stuff only to later figure out they should have done it right the 1st time? (basically an M.net'er)


When I was a noob I 1st wanted to go with Band aids. Everyone told me its a crappy idea.
Then I wanted to try the voodoo box. Everyone shot that idea down as well and told me to stop dicking around and get engine management.

Looking back, and looking at a few local kids with band aids and how crappy their setups are and how mediocre the power is and how unpredictable the cars are I am very happy that I had some common sense knocked into me at the time.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:59 AM   #18
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I'm one of the more recent converts from band aids to megasquirt, so believe me, the differences and benefits are fresh in my mind. Starting from scratch, I would never suggest band aids over a standalone unit.

But lets be honest, our Miatas are a means of transport, and for a lot of us, a secondary means of transport, or "toy". Therefore, I don't feel it necessary to lie, fudge the truth, or withhold help in order to convince him to purchase a standalone ecu. He's already spent his money on these band aids, I'd like to see him have a safe and free tune rather than call him an idiot until he buys a megasquirt. If he starts to ask if he should spend $200 on a AFPR, that's when I'll really start pushing the megasquirt route.

I'm not going to "pat their *****", but I will help him keep his band aid setup safe, until he sees the light and can afford it.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:18 AM   #19
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Fair enough, I can respect that.
And we come off harsh but mean well. Anyone with half a brain quickly figures this out. That's what makes this community so close.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
SEARCH! Seriously.

In short, boost is not the limiting factor, power is. 5psi on a giant turbo might blow your engine up, 15psi on a tiny one might be just fine.

Your little '90 can handle around 225lb/ft, another 25lb/ft is the accepted limit of the transmission, so unless you're ready to do major rod and tranny upgrades, stay around 200. I wanna say somewhere around 11-12 for your setup, dyno is the only way to tell though.
Or you can be like me and buy a Rotrex, make 300whp and 200wtq and rock a 5spd on the track. But I wish I had more torques.
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