This is our standard piece for the thermostat housing. It is aluminum and can be tapped anywhere for anything.

http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/P1303144.JPG

For example, we did this one with a threaded bung.

Thanks hustler. I can follow your pic and do the same thing here. :)

No way a local machinist is charging $60 for that! ;)

Does anyone know what size threads are on the rear temp sensor on a '95? The sensor that goes into the cover that is.

m12 x 1.5

Thanks. The bung in the spacer Stephanie has pictured above is 1/8" NPT, didn't think that would work.

Stephanie,

How about a spacer like the one talked about in this thread? It ould have a port for the heater and the temp sensor plus a grove for the thermostat. We would cap it with the standard thermostat housing from the front of the motor. then we would just need a tee added to the pipe going ot the radiator for the heater to return too?

How must would something like that cost?

Also guys why not add a vavle to cut off the heater return when we are on the track?

^ I agree with this.

I would buy one exactly as you described. Then all one would have to do is run the hose back to the rad and remove the front neck.

I agree, I've suggested that a spacer with a m12x1.5 bung and small pipe for the heater core, machined to accept a thermostat would sell well.

I'll post pic of how I drilled (by drilled I mean will be this weekend) your spacer, steph.

We've been talking about something along these lines for a while, in an automatic version. The oil thermostat idea seemed promising, but an inquiry to Mocal suggested that the unit would not perform well with a fluid as thin as water.

Adding a simple 90° ball valve would be quite easy, and require nothing special on the part of the spacer itself. Just plumb it in series with the feed into the heater core. I'd think you'd not want to ever close it all the way, as this would deprive the block of flow when the thermostat is closed. Even in a race environment, there are going to be times (hopefully) when the thermostat is not wide open, and you don't want to stagnate the coolant during these periods.

That's the real catch-22 here; balancing the desire to not return hot coolant into the mixing manifold vs. the practical requirement of maintaining circulation when the thermostat is closed.

If you really wanted to get fancy, you could locate an electronic solenoid valve (similar to those used in zoned lawn sprinkler control) to shut off the flow of coolant to the heater core when the temperature is above some limit (say, 210°, for instance) and then re-open it when the temperature falls.

For the rest of us, I'm liking the spacer with thermostat & outlet, and a restrictive orifice feeding the heater. From a flow standpoint, that's just about a perfect 323 clone.

joe, do you have a link to a restrictive flow device I can fit in my heater hose with ease?

323gtx design is the original
 

The 323gtx design is the "factory" design. When MAZDA put this engine in the MIATA they did the front thermostat Reroute to save some money. The goal of all these racer and aftermarket Reroutes is to restore the original factory design.

Would we need to source a 1.6 neck or re-use our 1.8 necks for these offered re-routes?

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't there a MAZDA thermostat holder with the outlet at an appropriate angle that will fit on the original thermostat location on the back of the head? I think that it is one from a Protege or 323.

that 1.6L waterneck will point directly left or right of the engine when placed on the back of the spacer.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...273-cover-.jpg

Hustler,

Have a look in the racing section of your local homedept or Loews they have lots of ball valves to choose from and hose barbs for installing them.

ball valves? how about a washer in front of the copper inlet tube....

That or a Kia Sephia water neck. With that one there's no hole to worry about plugging.

Best pic I have.

Attachment 207859
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Since I am in TX I really would like to take the heater out of the system on the track. I really do not think the thermostat will close while running laps under boost when it is 100 plus on the track.

If I am out of line and cutting flow through the heater will fuck something up let me know, but would I still have water bypassing the thermostat for the Oil heater and turbo cooling lines?

that won't work on a 99-head if you want to put the CLT sensor in the factory plug. FYI, for future rerouters.

get a real oil cooler an trash the factory one.

good to know....shit:mad:

just gotta go hotside:

http://www.miatamx5.com/coolantreroute/reroute-004.jpg

Will a sensor even fit between the firewall and port on the 1.6 cap?
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I might do this myself. I have an old style tstat housing that will allow me to do it. My only concern is that with the BEGI S4 manifold is that there is not much space to work with to keep it away from the exhaust runners.

I have removed the coil pack since I am converting to COPs. So if I use the '99 tstat housing from the front of the block, then I could go straight up, then have an immediate 90 deg bend to route it the cold side. I think there is enough clearance with the firewall for this to work. Another search through the auto parts store hose collection could yield one that works well.

I have already drilled and tapped the head for the heater core connection a-la the spacerless coolant reroute.

not even close. It fits like the one in brain's picture though. But you see the issue with going cold-side. This is why I had to go heinz-57 style on mine.

just get begi to make a pipe like the "bigger" pink one:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t.../coolroute.jpg
then have them make another (with a heater hose return) and mail it to me. I want a metal pipe, to go there, really bad. The closer to the sensor the better...they just need a little hump and I'll pay top dollar. I'm worried about all the ghetto rubber back there, and want to put in a swirl-pot, like a man.

Fuck it, I'm driving to BEGi tomorrow. I want to get that made before I return to dallas.

I see what you mean, on 99+ you have to go around the hotside.
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read my thread in the diy...I went cold side, just went around the CLT sensor.

When you get the "swirl" pot routed, I want a look see.
Saw Matt's and have it on the list as a must have.

that sucks

I would leave the factory oil "cooler" alone, and add an external one if necessary. It plays an important role in bringing the oil up to operating temp during warmup. Now that I have real gauges in my car, I've noticed that the coolant temps rise *much* faster than the oil temps. Starting from 40 F, when the coolant is at 160 the oil's only at 90. When the coolant stabilizes at 190 the oil's still only at 115 or so. During warmup, the factory "oil cooler" is in fact putting heat into the oil; even with that, it takes the oil 2-3 times longer to reach 190.

The variable redline in the tach of BMW's M series starts at 4k rpm. The lights are based on oil temp. This is why I stay below 4k until the oil is up to temp, at least 160F.

So, in any reroute I'd leave it in place, it helps warmup times. Add an external oil cooler if the oil needs more help.

Edit: Brain's excellent drawing in Post #60 is what I plan to do when the need comes.

well, on the track, I'd like to keep the 275-300* oil away from water. I think it makes sense to keep it on the street to an extent.

I'm no engineer though.

I figured on either lathing one out of aluminum stock, or just getting a brass double-nipple hose joiner, filling it partially with solder, and then drilling a hole through the solder plug.

Ok, let me see if I have this straight. Ya'll want the pictured piece w/ a groove for the thermostat?

What I am confused on is the extra ports.... This is a spacer and you replace the stock piece. Doesn't that have the temp sensor bung already? And the port for the heater?

It is easy enough to route the heater core out to the upper radiator hose. We have a splice already, just move it from the upper radiator hose to the end of the straight hose on the race re-route.

Basically, tell me what you want and we will build it.
Stephanie

I don't have that sensor there. That port is plugged with a bolt and crush washer. Came that way off of the stock '00 I pulled the head from. The CLT sensor I do have from my '95 I was just planning on putting in the spacer. Of course in that picture, there is no spacer...

Yes.

The temp sensor won't fit between the stock piece and the firewall. The port for the heater is to feed the heater core pre-thermostat (and retains returning it to the mixing manifold at the water pump).

This is what most everyone is looking for (and what I was emailing you about :) ) It's also not mine. On second thought, the customer would have to tell you which way the upper radiator hose is being routed (hotside or coldside) as that will affect the position of the heater hose port.:

http://users.telenet.be/miata/images...e/JRspacer.jpg

The bung has to be thick enough to allow the temp sensor to get a reading but not interfere with the thermostat.

Stephanie,
Here's what we want:
CLT sensor on the engine side of the t-stat (sensors in the front of the head suck because that's the coldest part)
heater port on the engine side of the t-stat

things you should do to make one unit, to use for all cars...even swap cars:
a provision to put the CLT sensor port in 99-heads (above the red circle)
you should also make sure the hump clears the coil pack
you should make a metal hose shaped like this, possibly with the heater return and bung for the 1.6 fan sensor
the 1.6 gauge bung with yellow arrow can be used on the 1.8 and 99 heads just fine, but...
I think you should do an autometer/omori plug there for aftermarket water temp gagues like I want you to make for me currently

Known Unknowns:
do you need an additional bung in the spacer for NA 1.8 cars?
How to make people stop bitching on the heater recirc?

Epiphany:
You don't have to do a bend arround the 99sensor bung-hole if you make 2 CLT bungs in the spacer (for 1.6 cars)...but good luck clearing coil packs

Do you want to look at my set-up again? I can swing by tomorrow on my way to Houston and you can check out my bung-holes...if I talk myself out of driving the Cobalt. I think there's money to be made on this, simplify it so one piece can do it all, and you guys sell stuff at reasonable prices so that's always a plus with us cheap bastards.

I can't believe I just gave away my design. Hyper and I could be in the Cayman's right now, drinking a mai tai. :cry:

It's not yours until you build it you vag. Breakout the papermache.

This is the setup that I would like to buy. I would want it as a complete package with everything I would need to complete the job.

+1

I don't really appreciate you calling me a "vag." I was initially surprised that you're familiar with vagina at all. Then I thought about that PM you sent me about your "Y chromosome issue" and it all made sense.




and I have that set-up on my car currently.

Glad your on your toes. Where are the pictures of your piece, I'd swear I saw them at one point.

Yes and No

We want a a few of versions of this one for the 1.6, one for the 1.8 and one for the 99 and later 1.8. I am fine if we have to get the Kia Sephia water neck to make it work too (does anyone have the part #? Plus what ever pipes and hoses BEGi currently has in the racer reroute to plumb this to the radiator.

The issue seems to be that with your current reroute routes everything is post thermostat so until the thermostat is open we do not get a good CLT or gauge reading of coolant temps. Also if a thermostat fails closed we get a low reading on the gauge and a warped head.

As Hustler says we also need an extra port with a plug for extra gauges and such.

I hope this makes sense.


http://users.telenet.be/miata/images...e/JRspacer.jpg

eraser x...look through my post. It goes over the provisions for all motors, including special provisions for swaps in 1.6 chassis cars. You can use the 1.6 or 1.8 waterneck...but BEGi should make a slimmer one. . Its wise to go with the extra ports and plug them so they can make 1-piece, and you could add stuff to it in the future. I speak from experience on a few of my points...currently looking for more ports!!! They should also use shorter studs, not bolts, so you can take out the T-stat without pulling the head off. I used "all-thread" and nylon lock-nuts with locktite like whoa.

You're spot on with the CLT sensor problem in failure...but it can't help with tuning unless the t-stat is open.

I'll take pics tonight if I can remember and can manage to get some time with all the supermodel competition I'm judging tonight.

I forgot to take pics when I put it together.

I found a hose today at the auto parts store that does what you have drawn for the "bigger" pink one. It is just about perfect actually, and fits right on the thermostat housing, oriented so that it points upward.

Thus I am the master Hustler. If you bow down before me, acknowledge that I have the actual "bigger" pink one, and that you lust for my "bigger" pink one, I may give you the part number.

Yes, please. I printed all this out and gave it to Corky.
Stephanie

Basically. In its simplest form, and for my own understanding.

We want to 1. remove the front water neck, 2. retain the heater cores circulation through the mixing manifold and 3. send the coolant from the back of the engine to the rad.

All that would need to happen is for your spacer to be slightly modified. 1. It needs to be able to accept the thermostat from the front, and 2. provision to accept the sensor that is in the housing at the back of the head. 3. The orientation needs to be mirrored. The pipe coming out of it needs to go to the heater core, while a KIA sephia or 1.6 neck is used for the other direction.

Flow is simple. Pre thermostat(using the spacers pipe) -> Heater -> Mixing manifold. Post Thermostate(using a re-oriented neck) -> back to the radiator.

Want to make it even more streamline, tap the spacer in a way to allow it to re use the rear water neck but re-orient it to point to the cold side.

You may have a bigger pink one, but mine is the perfect shape...just ask anyones who's been strapped into the harness and gone on the ride of their life.

We need a panel to judge our "pink ones."Maybe we should go to the "1337 speak" forum to further discuss our bung-holes and pink ones.

Let's see if we can consolidate this. This is open to comment.

We want a spacer to go on the hole on the back of the head, like the one shown in This Picture. We will cover this spacer, on the firewall side, with either a stock water neck outlet or a Kia water neck outlet. Said outlet shall feed water to the radiator upper hose, and may be pointed to either the hotside or coldside of the engine. I expect that coldside orientation will be most prevalent, at least among turbo users. The spacer shall be grooved on the firewall side to accept a stock thermostat. The thermostat shall be placed between the spacer and the water neck outlet, such that everything which follows shall be before the thermostat.

The spacer shall be drilled and tapped to accept the following:

1: An NPT-threaded barbed fitting to supply the heater core. This shall face towards the exhaust side of the engine, and be roughly horizontal.

2: A threaded hole to accept one stock CLT sensor. I assume that the thread size of the 1.6, 1.8NA and NB CLT sensors are all the same.

3: (optional) A threaded hole to accept the fan thermoswitch used on 1.6 engines. A plug shall be supplied to block this position when not in use.

4: (optional) A threaded hole (presumably 1/8 NPT) from which to draw cooling water for the turbo. A plug shall be supplied to block this position when not in use.

5: (optional) A 3/8" NPT threaded hole to accommodate a GM-style CLT sensor for use by MegaSquirt owners. This same hole could be used, with an NPT reducer, to accomodate a 1/8" NPT coolant sensor as well. A plug shall be supplied to block this position when not in use.
The placement of these fittings must be such that none of them interfere with the NA CAS (in either the 1.6 or 1.8 position) or any stock coilpack. (Frankly, I don't care as I have neither a CAS nor a coilpack...) It is probably acceptable that fitting #3 (1.6 fan thermoswitch) may interfere with the CAS when installed in the exhaust cam position (1.8), as these two applications are mutually exclusive.


As per Hustler's pink picture, it would be nice if an appropriate hose and/or tube was provided to accommodate the routing of the hose which exits at the water neck outlet and runs to the radiator.


For now, the heater core return shall be ignored, as it is a separate issue. It is not desirable to return it to the upper radiator hose, at least for street applications. In my opinion, it should be left as stock (returning to the mixing manifold), although it would be nice if an inline restrictive orifice (with perhaps a 3/8" or so passage) were provided to place in series with the feed into the heater core.


I agree that the design of the current Bell spacer could be modified to work. In fact, its circular shape makes it a better platform to work from than the JR spacer. Eliminate the large welded pipe, add the threaded holes, and lathe a groove for the thermostat.


Have I missed anything?

Steph, another thought has occurred to me.

Can we DIYers buy your spacer with no holes drilled it in, nothing welded to it, etc? Just the raw spacer itself? What is the approximate wall thickness?

Joe, you need to discuss angles for the CLT sensors in relation to the coil packs, and respect both 1.6, 1.8, and swap cars. Its very tight back there.

Also, my Omori water temp sensor uses BSP.

I did discuss it.


see:You can use the 3/8" NPT hole and adapt.




Or, since we're all manly men here, we could just get the raw spacer (assuming it comes pre-lathed for the thermostat) and drill it to suit our individual needs.

Ugh... you are making my head hurt already!
Stephanie

+1. I think they should sell a spacer that, if possible, is 100% ready to go and tapped for every sensor possible such that it works with as many setups as possible. And then sell a bare spacer with nothing tapped for the cheap DIY'ers. I do disagree with Joe about using T's and fittings to make one work vs. it already being tapped though. I know I don't want to see how many fittings (potential failure points) my cooling system has. We need an elegant solution, not a hacked one. We've got plenty of hacked solutions full of compromises.

I stand corrected. Reading comprehension ftw!

yeah, I had a big pile of parts...it was like a chinese puzzle.

I think Joe is right on everything.

So we do not need to put a back on the spacer piece?

No problem.

I would assume the same also. No problem.

On the spacer housing or on the tubing portion?

What about doing a 3/8 NPT and you can use it for EITHER the gm style sensor or use a reducer fitting for the turbo coolant?

If there is space, as an option, it does not seem like a problem. Can some of these ports be on the bottom of the spacer?

We have a 1.6L and 1.8L motor here. I assume we should be able to fit all this stuff around what is on the motor right?


Going to the radiator, around the intake manifold, that is easy.

The groove is no problem. Why eliminate the welded pipe? Don't you need that to go to the upper radiator hose?

We do have a front thermostat block off plate.
Stephanie

Sure.

3/8" to 1/2"

Stephanie

what do you think I have? But it would be nice to come pre-machined for a thermostat...