Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner
(Post 374499)
Why eliminate the welded pipe? Don't you need that to go to the upper radiator hose?
Stephanie This is kind of a good example: Spacer on block (is feeding coolant to the heater core, not tapped for temp sensor though): http://users.telenet.be/miata/images...pacer_rear.jpg 1.6L Front Thermostat Cover mounted on top of spacer containing thermostat (returning coolant to upper radiator hose on coldside, ignore the temp sender bung, that has to be plugged as there is no room between the cover and firewall to mount the sensor there): http://users.telenet.be/miata/images...cover_rear.jpg |
Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner
(Post 374499)
On the spacer housing or on the tubing portion?
If there is space, as an option, it does not seem like a problem. Can some of these ports be on the bottom of the spacer? We do have a front thermostat block off plate. Stephanie there is a transmission under the spacer. I used a 30mm plug to block the front. |
Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner
(Post 374499)
The groove is no problem. Why eliminate the welded pipe? Don't you need that to go to the upper radiator hose?
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Stephanie,
I just had something come up at work and I won't be able to come out tomorrow. Maybe the pics will help. |
Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner
(Post 374499)
So we do not need to put a back on the spacer piece?
(regarding a plug to fill the hole) On the spacer housing or on the tubing portion? What about doing a 3/8 NPT and you can use it for EITHER the gm style sensor or use a reducer fitting for the turbo coolant? (re: sidebars I and II) If there is space, as an option, it does not seem like a problem. Can some of these ports be on the bottom of the spacer? We have a 1.6L and 1.8L motor here. I assume we should be able to fit all this stuff around what is on the motor right? Going to the radiator, around the intake manifold, that is easy. The groove is no problem. Why eliminate the welded pipe? Don't you need that to go to the upper radiator hose? Go out and look at the front thermostat housing on a stock 1.6 engine. Visualize the rounded cover that the upper radiator hose attaches to. That's what we're going to bolt to the back of this whole thing. The thermostat will live between that cover and the firewall side of the spacer, and that outlet will feed the upper radiator pipe. Just like Braineack and levnubhin have shown in the pictures they posted. (Brainey's is shown feeding out to the exhaust side, but it's reversible.) We do have a front thermostat block off plate. (on purchasing the naked spacer) 3/8" to 1/2" |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 374508)
what do you think I have? But it would be nice to come pre-machined for a thermostat...
And being that I sold my lathe when I moved out here, I kinda need it to come pre-lathed. There isn't a single machine shop in all of Charlotte County so far as I can tell. Mr. Pierce died, and he was the only one I knew of. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 374534)
Go out and look at the front thermostat housing on a stock 1.6 engine. Visualize the rounded cover that the upper radiator hose attaches to. That's what we're going to bolt to the back of this whole thing. The thermostat will live between that cover and the firewall side of the spacer, and that outlet will feed the upper radiator pipe.
Stephanie |
If the 1.6 fan sensor is on the front of the head...will it ever get hot enough to come on? (210*?)
The 1.6 gauge senders go in different locations on the NA and NB head, but that's it. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 374534)
Hmmm. Thick enough for a 1/8" NPT, probably not enough for a 3/8" NPT without some welding... Or some JB-Weld. :D
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Build one and I will come by and pick it up tomorrow!
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ETA on this thing?
Need one of these bad boys for the gtx head, silly fwd's. |
hold on to your hats, picture dump coming shortly.
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loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolololol
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where does the swirl pot go?
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Zomg, what's a swirl pot?? I thought people used those for fueling or something.
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Love you man, I knew you would post pictures :)
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i left the Braineack Penis logo, I'll start branding the MSes I build with it.
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Holly shit thats way to big!!!
Lol, looks like it sticks out towards the firewall quite a bit, whats your clearence Clarence? -Dean |
Originally Posted by dc2696
(Post 374615)
Holly shit thats way to big!!!
Lol, looks like it sticks out towards the firewall quite a bit, whats your clearence Clarence? -Dean It will fit. I had one on b4 I swapped it out to a Kia Sephia piece. __________________ Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote |
Brain, where did you get that pipe?
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Originally Posted by levnubhin
(Post 374623)
Brain, where did you get that pipe?
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 374626)
BEGi.
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Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner
(Post 374547)
I will mock one up tomorrow and post it. How long is the stock CLT sensor? How much can it stick into the inside hole?
Stephanie Here's the 1.6 sensor: http://www.finishlineperformance.com.../857418840.jpg And the 1.8 NA sensor: http://www.finishlineperformance.com...93-18-840A.jpg
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 374551)
If the 1.6 fan sensor is on the front of the head...will it ever get hot enough to come on? (210*?)
You could always put it in a pipe section placed in series with the upper radiator hose.
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 374553)
3/8" thick steel is enough to seal a 1" NPT fitting. 3/8" is plenty for what we're doing.
But without the drawing of a penis. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 374644)
On a flat plane, no question. I was worried about a tapered thread going into a convex surface. Still, that spacer does look pretty thick. You're probably right. Just make sure you don't bottom the tap while threading the hole, use some teflon tape and it'd probably be fine. EDIT: BTW I do understand what you're saying about the surface being convex. But it's not enough to matter. Only takes 1 thread around the perimeter to seal the fitting. |
Originally Posted by levnubhin
(Post 374627)
$? How long is it?
it's 16.5" long. My question is, where does one find a Kia water neck? I was going to use a allen-head cap to fill the hole, that's my broken thermoswitch in the picture. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 374662)
I honestly don't remember what I paid for them I purchased them over 6 months ago.
it's 16.5" long. My question is, where does one find a Kia water neck? I was going to use a allen-head cap to fill the hole, that's my broken thermoswitch in the picture. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 374663)
95-97 kia sephia. Has a mazda BP 1.8 from the factory.
I know that. I was leaning towards, like, where exactly could one pick one up? |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 374664)
I know that. I was leaning towards, like, where exactly could one pick one up?
Or eBay. Or a junkyard. Or you could wait for Rican Racer to buy a Sephia, and then steal his. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 374664)
I know that. I was leaning towards, like, where exactly could one pick one up?
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I think I'll be fine with my housing...we'll see.
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 374663)
95-97 kia sephia. Has a mazda BP 1.8 from the factory.
If I have time this weekend I'll go and grab all that I can find for you guys. Just pay me what it cost to get it and ship it. No promises though. __________________ Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote |
Originally Posted by levnubhin
(Post 374681)
Got mine from the local U pull it. They usually have quite a few dead Sephias.
If I have time this weekend I'll go and grab all that I can find for you guys. Just pay me what it cost to get it and ship it. No promises though. Pick me one up and I'll paypal u asap man -Dean |
I can go look at our local junk heap too. I have two local yards that let me walk around and have quite a few cars.
Scott, if you can't find a Kia neck get the machine shop that fixed your head to cut that nipple off and weld it up. |
I just realized the begi spacer with the pipe can just be flipped around to point to the exhaust side and still bolt up.
So all it needs is a bung for the coolant sensor and ur done. |
Originally Posted by levnubhin
(Post 374622)
It will fit. I had one on b4 I swapped it out to a Kia Sephia piece.
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When sourcing the neck from the sephia are we also looking for the front one?
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I have a 1.6L piece on the way to me right now, but would much rather deal with the Kia piece. So if anyone finds one at their local yard, I'd like one.
But if I get a chance, I'll run up to the local pull-a-part and see if they have any too. |
Originally Posted by Saml01
(Post 374763)
I just realized the begi spacer with the pipe can just be flipped around to point to the exhaust side and still bolt up.
So all it needs is a bung for the coolant sensor and ur done. The welded pipe needs to go away. Just turn the spacer on a lathe to accommodate a thermostat on the firewall-side, drill a few holes in the spacer, tap them, and screw in the appropriate fittings and sensor. No welding, no fuss, no muss. Steph, I have a question for you. In the second-to-last picture that Braineack posted in that long series of his, there's a pipe that runs front to back to carry coolant from the rear outlet to the radiator inlet. The pipe is of a uniform diameter, and smooth. On your website, there are several pictures depicting a similar pipe, however it has mounting tabs to secure it to the intake manifold and is of a slightly smaller diameter along most of its length, with welded adapters on the end to mate with the radiator hose. I've attached pictures: http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/PA032369.JPG http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/PA032371.JPG http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/PA032372.JPG I like this design a lot. The pictures appear to be from a 1.8 engine, have you done this for the 1.6 as well? |
Originally Posted by Saml01
(Post 374784)
When sourcing the neck from the sephia are we also looking for the front one?
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 374897)
On your website, there are several pictures depicting a similar pipe, however it has mounting tabs to secure it to the intake manifold and is of a slightly smaller diameter along most of its length, with welded adapters on the end to mate with the radiator hose. I've attached pictures:
I like this design a lot. The pictures appear to be from a 1.8 engine, have you done this for the 1.6 as well?
Originally Posted by Bell Engineering Website
The final version does not have mounting tabs for the intake manifold.
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Bugger. I fail at reading comprehension.
Oh well, I still want it. The spacer, the pipe, and the hoses I need to make then bends. |
Joe and Scott; I've read and reread this thread. Would any of you care to summarize it and post a simple diagram? Or just edit Phil's original one?
A list of the parts you've been talking about would be nice. I think this way we can get some clear ideas. BTW, nice work. Thanks |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 374901)
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Originally Posted by Rafa
(Post 374928)
Joe and Scott; I've read and reread this thread. Would any of you care to summarize it and post a simple diagram?
Maybe you just missed posts 31, 60 and 133. |
Originally Posted by Eraser-X
(Post 374934)
Wow that went fast !
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Here's what I'd like to see changed. It would add a bit of cost, and believe me I'm as cheap as saml01, but I'd like to see one metal pipe that goes from the rear of the engine to the front of the engine. There would be one rubber hose segment where it connects at the rear and another at the front where it connects to the radiator. And no more. Seeing how many connections we can add to the system does not arouse me. Preferably the metal pipe would have a couple mounting tabs as well to mount it to the engine. I think this is important to. If the end piece ends up being 1 or 2 pipes with 3 or 4 connections, I won't buy it. I'll get the spacer and make my own one piece pipe that's secured to the engine.
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 374897)
I like this design a lot. The pictures appear to be from a 1.8 engine, have you done this for the 1.6 as well?
Stephanie |
Originally Posted by Rafa
(Post 374928)
Joe and Scott; I've read and reread this thread. Would any of you care to summarize it and post a simple diagram? Or just edit Phil's original one?
Here is the stock cooling system: http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...km_389dc2b.gif I have removed all the little accessory plumbing to make things simpler and depict only the primary coolant path. Water comes out of the pump and goes into the front of the engine. When the thermostat is open, much of this water goes up around #1, and then right out the front of the head, through the thermostat, and into the radiator. Because of this, relatively little water flows around the back of the engine, and the rear of the engine runs hotter as a result. Additionally, a lot of the water coming from the pump is being wasted by going right back out of the engine again, thus lowering the overall cooling capacity of the system. Here's the reroute as proposed: http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...em_dd3d488.gif We put a spacer on the back, put the thermostat into it, and put a water neck outlet on that. In the front, we block the outlet where the thermostat was. In this configuration, all of the water coming out of the pump goes all the way through the engine. When the thermostat is closed, all this water goes through the heater core and back into the mixing manifold (This is how the stock system works.) When the thermostat opens, some of this water gets diverted away to the radiator. But the key point is that all of the water, including that sent off to the radiator, passed all the way through the engine first. So, the parts list: 1: A spacer, with a grooved lip for the thermostat, drilled to accept a barbed fitting for the heater core, the CLT sensor, and optionally one or two other sensors / outlets. 2: The water neck. This is from a Kia Sephia, a 1.6L Miata, a Protege, etc. 3: A pipe of some kind to carry water from the outlet at the back to the upper radiator inlet, and hoses to connect it. 4: Something to block off the front thermostat outlet- a freeze plug or a flat plate. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 374940)
I'd like to see one metal pipe that goes from the rear of the engine to the front of the engine. There would be one rubber hose segment where it connects at the rear and another at the front where it connects to the radiator. And no more.
This would probably not be possible in a one-size-fits-all application. For example, my engine is pretty cluttered in the area around the radiator inlet. I've got a BOV, a circular saw blade, and a lot of wiring up there, not to mention my homebrew inlet manifold pipe. I'm thinking that a multi-section rubber hose solution, though it adds connection points, will give me the flexibility I need to make this connection without having to re-arrange all my existing parts. |
Originally Posted by Stephanie Turner
(Post 374943)
(regarding the welded tabs)
No, but we can. I just marked up a spacer and gave it to Joe to alter. I will post photos when done. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 374947)
It's a valid question. We've been banging around a lot.
Here is the stock cooling system: http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...km_389dc2b.gif I have removed all the little accessory plumbing to make things simpler and depict only the primary coolant path. Water comes out of the pump and goes into the front of the engine. When the thermostat is open, much of this water goes up around #1, and then right out the front of the head, through the thermostat, and into the radiator. Because of this, relatively little water flows around the back of the engine, and the rear of the engine runs hotter as a result. Additionally, a lot of the water coming from the pump is being wasted by going right back out of the engine again, thus lowering the overall cooling capacity of the system. Here's the reroute as proposed: http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...em_dd3d488.gif We put a spacer on the back, put the thermostat into it, and put a water neck outlet on that. In the front, we block the outlet where the thermostat was. In this configuration, all of the water coming out of the pump goes all the way through the engine. When the thermostat is closed, all this water goes through the heater core and back into the mixing manifold (This is how the stock system works.) When the thermostat opens, some of this water gets diverted away to the radiator. But the key point is that all of the water, including that sent off to the radiator, passed all the way through the engine first. So, the parts list: 1: A spacer, with a grooved lip for the thermostat, drilled to accept a barbed fitting for the heater core, the CLT sensor, and optionally one or two other sensors / outlets. 2: The water neck. This is from a Kia Sephia, a 1.6L Miata, a Protege, etc. 3: A pipe of some kind to carry water from the outlet at the back to the upper radiator inlet, and hoses to connect it. 4: Something to block off the front thermostat outlet- a freeze plug or a flat plate. Scott; not all members have the same mechanical skills. I reiterate my original remark: Congratulations on a great thread! :bigtu: Not too long ago; someone started a thread asking why guys susbscribe: I subscribe to this forum for this type of threads. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 374949)
Now that I think about it, I'm guessing there was a good reason you got rid of the welded tabs- they're probably potential failure points due to vibration. I can live with a free-floating pipe.
(music from Jeopardy playing) That's what I did. Im much more comfortable with it free floating Vs all the flex being put on the front hose.. __________________ Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote |
OEM's secure coolant pipes to the engine and use a rubber hose of sufficient length to take care of engine vibrations and movement. I'm more interested in the spacer for cheap than the pipe anyways. Odds are they won't make one I like.
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Spent 10 minutes and modded my housing while my lunch was heating up...
http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20001.JPG http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20002.JPG First i cut about 1/4" off the bung. http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20003.JPG http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20004.JPG Then I screwed in a radiator plug and proceeded to cut off the head (I couldn't find the type of plug I wanted). http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20008.JPG Now it sticks out just slightly less than before (without a plug). If I could find the right plug it would be better, but I'm certain this will be fine, beats buying a new housing. |
nice pair of robo grip pliers mang!
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2 Attachment(s)
Here is the first version:
~A 12 mm threaded bung with spacer for temps sensors. ~Two 3/8 NPT bung. One for heater core return, one for upper radiator hose connection. Does this work? Stephanie |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 375026)
nice pair of robo grip pliers mang!
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Don't forget the machined lip for the thermostat to sit in it. The thermostat will be between the spacer and the kia water neck not that spacer and the head as in your old racer reroute design.
I don't think the 3/8 NPT hole for connection to the upper radiator hose is necessary. A 1/8 NPT port for sending units like my vgauges sending unit would be better utilized. A similar "spacer bung" that you used before would work. The upper radiator hose will be connected via the kia waterneck. As shown here: http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20008.JPG |
Needs to be machined for a t-stat.
Edit- Cj beat me to it. __________________ Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote |
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