Nope. Because we'll be attaching the thermostat cover from the front of a 1.6L Miata (or a Sephia) to the spacer, and that will feed the post-thermostat coolant to the upper radiator hose. The pipe could technically stay to feed the heater core, just may not need to be quite as long as it is now.

This is kind of a good example:

Spacer on block (is feeding coolant to the heater core, not tapped for temp sensor though):
http://users.telenet.be/miata/images...pacer_rear.jpg

1.6L Front Thermostat Cover mounted on top of spacer containing thermostat (returning coolant to upper radiator hose on coldside, ignore the temp sender bung, that has to be plugged as there is no room between the cover and firewall to mount the sensor there):
http://users.telenet.be/miata/images...cover_rear.jpg

The 1.6 fan sensor can go in the tubing post thermostat.

there is a transmission under the spacer.

I used a 30mm plug to block the front.

The metal pipe should feed the heater core instead because it is pre thermostat.

Stephanie,
I just had something come up at work and I won't be able to come out tomorrow. Maybe the pics will help.

Nope. Overall, it will look roughly like what RotorNutFD3S posted in message #96 or #121. Just a spacer, open on both ends, with a bunch of fittings in the middle.

On the housing. My thinking is that if a person wishes to use a particular hole, they can install the appropriate NPT fitting into it. If they don't wish to use that hole, they can install the plug. Certain of the holes (the one for the heater outlet, and the one for the stock CLT sensor) will almost always be used, thus no plug need be supplied for those positions.


I like it.


Is there room? Been a while since I looked at one with the tranny and everything attached. If so, any of the CLT sensor threads could go there, though the one for the stock CLT sensor would ideally put the sensor in a stock-like location so the factory wiring can reach it.


I believe that's the idea. I don't think there's anything on the NB is isn't on the 1.8 NA, so those two should work as templates.



Really? That's the part that gave me the most grief when I tried to figure it out for myself.


No! The whole idea is that the thermostat will go on the firewall-side of this spacer, not between the spacer and the head. That pipe is the whole problem with the one you have now.

Go out and look at the front thermostat housing on a stock 1.6 engine. Visualize the rounded cover that the upper radiator hose attaches to. That's what we're going to bolt to the back of this whole thing. The thermostat will live between that cover and the firewall side of the spacer, and that outlet will feed the upper radiator pipe.

Just like Braineack and levnubhin have shown in the pictures they posted. (Brainey's is shown feeding out to the exhaust side, but it's reversible.)


In that case, put a hole in it to fit the 1.6 fan thermoswitch, and sell that piece to the 1.6 guys. This eliminates the need for one of the holes on the spacer.



Hmmm. Thick enough for a 1/8" NPT, probably not enough for a 3/8" NPT without some welding... Or some JB-Weld. :D

I think you have no cupcakes.

And being that I sold my lathe when I moved out here, I kinda need it to come pre-lathed. There isn't a single machine shop in all of Charlotte County so far as I can tell. Mr. Pierce died, and he was the only one I knew of.

I will mock one up tomorrow and post it. How long is the stock CLT sensor? How much can it stick into the inside hole?
Stephanie

If the 1.6 fan sensor is on the front of the head...will it ever get hot enough to come on? (210*?)

The 1.6 gauge senders go in different locations on the NA and NB head, but that's it.

3/8" thick steel is enough to seal a 1" NPT fitting. 3/8" is plenty for what we're doing. This is relatively low pressure anyways. 3-4 threads is plenty of contact area for a reliable seal. 3/8-18 NPT at 3/8" thickness = 6.75 threads. Plenty. Now whether a spacer welded on is needed for thermostat clearance or flow considerations is another story.

Build one and I will come by and pick it up tomorrow!

ETA on this thing?

Need one of these bad boys for the gtx head, silly fwd's.

hold on to your hats, picture dump coming shortly.

Graffitied BEGi spacer:

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer...oute%20016.JPG





http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer...oute%20019.JPG


Machined Lip:

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer...oute%20030.JPG

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer...oute%20031.JPG



Simple Reroute:

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer...oute%20033.jpg

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer...oute%20020.JPG

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer...oute%20027.jpg

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolololol

where does the swirl pot go?

Zomg, what's a swirl pot?? I thought people used those for fueling or something.

Love you man, I knew you would post pictures :)

i left the Braineack Penis logo, I'll start branding the MSes I build with it.

Holly shit thats way to big!!!

Lol, looks like it sticks out towards the firewall quite a bit, whats your clearence Clarence?


-Dean

It will fit. I had one on b4 I swapped it out to a Kia Sephia piece.
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Brain, where did you get that pipe?
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BEGi.

$? How long is it?
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It's not terribly long. Don't have one handy, but the unthreaded portion is less than an inch.

Here's the 1.6 sensor:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com.../857418840.jpg

And the 1.8 NA sensor:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com...93-18-840A.jpg


It's good enough for the stock config. Either way, you're measuring the water coming into the block. I agree that putting it in the back is better, but frankly I don't give a shit about the stock 1.6 fanswitch. Any seroius 1.6 user should already have the fans under ECU control, or have a switch under the radio. Or both, like I have. If BEGi decides that they have room to accommodate it on the spacer, then great. But if it's down to that or another NPT hole, I'd go for the NPT hole. Besides, Bell is going to have a hard time finding a plug to fill that unused metric hole, and the majority of users don't need it anyway.

You could always put it in a pipe section placed in series with the upper radiator hose.



On a flat plane, no question. I was worried about a tapered thread going into a convex surface. Still, that spacer does look pretty thick. You're probably right. Just make sure you don't bottom the tap while threading the hole, use some teflon tape and it'd probably be fine.


I've modified the drawing slightly, but basically this is exactly what I want. Including the pipe and the hoses to hook it up.

But without the drawing of a penis.

If the wall thickness is 3/8", then the minimum length of the threads will be 3/8", the rest more. So the radius of the pipe shouldn't be a concern. My numbers are from a machinist handbook BTW.

EDIT: BTW I do understand what you're saying about the surface being convex. But it's not enough to matter. Only takes 1 thread around the perimeter to seal the fitting.

I honestly don't remember what I paid for them I purchased them over 6 months ago.

it's 16.5" long.



My question is, where does one find a Kia water neck? I was going to use a allen-head cap to fill the hole, that's my broken thermoswitch in the picture.

95-97 kia sephia. Has a mazda BP 1.8 from the factory.

I know that. I was leaning towards, like, where exactly could one pick one up?

I'm thinking... a Kia dealer maybe?

Or eBay.

Or a junkyard.

Or you could wait for Rican Racer to buy a Sephia, and then steal his.

Junkyards. Kia gets bumped into and the insurance company totals the car out because they don't hold value for shit. So they're plentiful. Just have to look. I have 2 or 3 kia water necks, another from a protege, and another from a 1.6 miata. I'll be using 3 of them for my reroute. :) If they become popular I'll get a few next time I'm at the junk yard. The protege part is the same IIRC. They're all similar.

I think I'll be fine with my housing...we'll see.

Got mine from the local U pull it. They usually have quite a few dead Sephias.

If I have time this weekend I'll go and grab all that I can find for you guys. Just pay me what it cost to get it and ship it. No promises though.
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I'm in, we don't have junkyards like you guys do, our shit is all old and gay...

Pick me one up and I'll paypal u asap man

-Dean

I can go look at our local junk heap too. I have two local yards that let me walk around and have quite a few cars.

Scott, if you can't find a Kia neck get the machine shop that fixed your head to cut that nipple off and weld it up.

I just realized the begi spacer with the pipe can just be flipped around to point to the exhaust side and still bolt up.

So all it needs is a bung for the coolant sensor and ur done.

Did you use an allen-head plug? The tip of the bung sticks out exactly 1" further than the CAS.

When sourcing the neck from the sephia are we also looking for the front one?

I have a 1.6L piece on the way to me right now, but would much rather deal with the Kia piece. So if anyone finds one at their local yard, I'd like one.
But if I get a chance, I'll run up to the local pull-a-part and see if they have any too.

The O.D. of that pipe is way too large to fit a heater hose onto. It's designed to accomodate a radiator-sized hose.

The welded pipe needs to go away. Just turn the spacer on a lathe to accommodate a thermostat on the firewall-side, drill a few holes in the spacer, tap them, and screw in the appropriate fittings and sensor. No welding, no fuss, no muss.



Steph, I have a question for you. In the second-to-last picture that Braineack posted in that long series of his, there's a pipe that runs front to back to carry coolant from the rear outlet to the radiator inlet. The pipe is of a uniform diameter, and smooth.

On your website, there are several pictures depicting a similar pipe, however it has mounting tabs to secure it to the intake manifold and is of a slightly smaller diameter along most of its length, with welded adapters on the end to mate with the radiator hose. I've attached pictures:

http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/PA032369.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/PA032371.JPG

http://www.bellengineering.net/image...e/PA032372.JPG

I like this design a lot. The pictures appear to be from a 1.8 engine, have you done this for the 1.6 as well?

:)

Bugger. I fail at reading comprehension.

Oh well, I still want it. The spacer, the pipe, and the hoses I need to make then bends.

Joe and Scott; I've read and reread this thread. Would any of you care to summarize it and post a simple diagram? Or just edit Phil's original one?

A list of the parts you've been talking about would be nice.

I think this way we can get some clear ideas.

BTW, nice work.

Thanks

Wow that went fast !

I've posted 2 simple diagrams in this thread, a parts list, and a picture showing all the parts I plan to use labeled on the head (minus hoses which i have yet to source).

Maybe you just missed posts 31, 60 and 133.

It is mine now.

Here's what I'd like to see changed. It would add a bit of cost, and believe me I'm as cheap as saml01, but I'd like to see one metal pipe that goes from the rear of the engine to the front of the engine. There would be one rubber hose segment where it connects at the rear and another at the front where it connects to the radiator. And no more. Seeing how many connections we can add to the system does not arouse me. Preferably the metal pipe would have a couple mounting tabs as well to mount it to the engine. I think this is important to. If the end piece ends up being 1 or 2 pipes with 3 or 4 connections, I won't buy it. I'll get the spacer and make my own one piece pipe that's secured to the engine.

No, but we can. I just marked up a spacer and gave it to Joe to alter. I will post photos when done.
Stephanie

It's a valid question. We've been banging around a lot.

Here is the stock cooling system:

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...km_389dc2b.gif

I have removed all the little accessory plumbing to make things simpler and depict only the primary coolant path. Water comes out of the pump and goes into the front of the engine. When the thermostat is open, much of this water goes up around #1, and then right out the front of the head, through the thermostat, and into the radiator. Because of this, relatively little water flows around the back of the engine, and the rear of the engine runs hotter as a result. Additionally, a lot of the water coming from the pump is being wasted by going right back out of the engine again, thus lowering the overall cooling capacity of the system.


Here's the reroute as proposed:
http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...em_dd3d488.gif

We put a spacer on the back, put the thermostat into it, and put a water neck outlet on that. In the front, we block the outlet where the thermostat was.

In this configuration, all of the water coming out of the pump goes all the way through the engine. When the thermostat is closed, all this water goes through the heater core and back into the mixing manifold (This is how the stock system works.) When the thermostat opens, some of this water gets diverted away to the radiator. But the key point is that all of the water, including that sent off to the radiator, passed all the way through the engine first.


So, the parts list:

1: A spacer, with a grooved lip for the thermostat, drilled to accept a barbed fitting for the heater core, the CLT sensor, and optionally one or two other sensors / outlets.

2: The water neck. This is from a Kia Sephia, a 1.6L Miata, a Protege, etc.

3: A pipe of some kind to carry water from the outlet at the back to the upper radiator inlet, and hoses to connect it.

4: Something to block off the front thermostat outlet- a freeze plug or a flat plate.

Hmmm.

This would probably not be possible in a one-size-fits-all application. For example, my engine is pretty cluttered in the area around the radiator inlet. I've got a BOV, a circular saw blade, and a lot of wiring up there, not to mention my homebrew inlet manifold pipe. I'm thinking that a multi-section rubber hose solution, though it adds connection points, will give me the flexibility I need to make this connection without having to re-arrange all my existing parts.

Now that I think about it, I'm guessing there was a good reason you got rid of the welded tabs- they're probably potential failure points due to vibration. I can live with a free-floating pipe.

(music from Jeopardy playing)

Many, many thanks Joe. :bowdown:

Scott; not all members have the same mechanical skills.

I reiterate my original remark: Congratulations on a great thread! :bigtu:

Not too long ago; someone started a thread asking why guys susbscribe: I subscribe to this forum for this type of threads.

That's what I did. Im much more comfortable with it free floating Vs all the flex being put on the front hose..
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OEM's secure coolant pipes to the engine and use a rubber hose of sufficient length to take care of engine vibrations and movement. I'm more interested in the spacer for cheap than the pipe anyways. Odds are they won't make one I like.

Spent 10 minutes and modded my housing while my lunch was heating up...

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20001.JPG

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20002.JPG

First i cut about 1/4" off the bung.



http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20003.JPG

http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20004.JPG

Then I screwed in a radiator plug and proceeded to cut off the head (I couldn't find the type of plug I wanted).



http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20008.JPG

Now it sticks out just slightly less than before (without a plug). If I could find the right plug it would be better, but I'm certain this will be fine, beats buying a new housing.

nice pair of robo grip pliers mang!

Here is the first version:
~A 12 mm threaded bung with spacer for temps sensors.
~Two 3/8 NPT bung. One for heater core return, one for upper radiator hose connection.

Does this work?
Stephanie

they're pretty intense.

Don't forget the machined lip for the thermostat to sit in it. The thermostat will be between the spacer and the kia water neck not that spacer and the head as in your old racer reroute design.
I don't think the 3/8 NPT hole for connection to the upper radiator hose is necessary. A 1/8 NPT port for sending units like my vgauges sending unit would be better utilized. A similar "spacer bung" that you used before would work. The upper radiator hose will be connected via the kia waterneck.
As shown here:
http://boostedmiata.com/projects/rer..._mod%20008.JPG

Needs to be machined for a t-stat.

Edit- Cj beat me to it.
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